AND 

ARGUMENTS 

GIVEN  BEFORE  THE 

Assembly  Committee  on  Canals, 

March,  19th,  1879, 

March  20th,  1879, 

March  25th,  1879, 

Favoring  the  introduction,  without  expense  to  the 
State,  of  an  improved  system  of  towage  upon 
the  Canals,  by  a  Railway  to  be  con- 
structed subsidiary  thereto. 


Committee: 

Hon.  J.  H.  Hurd  of  Erie, 

"  I.  I.  Hayes  "  New  York, 

"  Titus  Sheard  "  Herkimer, 

"  T.  N.  Van  Valkenburg  "  Niagara, 

"  Eli  Perry  "  Rensselaer, 

"  Edward  Stewart  "  Saratoga, 

"  0.  A.  Chickering  "  Lewis, 

"  H.  W.  Davis  "  Mod  roe, 

"  T.  D.  Penfield  Oneida. 

Clerk,     -      -    John  P.  Shumway. 


THIS  PAMPHLET  IS  ISSUED 

FREE 

By  the  Buffalo,  Syracuse  and  Albany  Railroad  Company.  Copies 
can  be  obtained  upon  application  to,  or  will  be  sent  by  mail,  by 
addressing 

F.  E.  FEOTH  INGHAM, 

Secretary. 

Coal  and  Iron  Exchange  Building, 

21  Cortlandt  Street,  New  York. 


TESTIMONY  GIVEN  BEFORE  THE  ASSEMBLY  CANAL 
COMMITTEE,  IN  REFERENCE  TO  AN  ACT  TO  INTRO- 
DUCE, WITHOUT  EXPENSE  TO  THE  STATE,  AN  IM- 
PROVED SYSTEM  OF  TOWAGE  UPON  THE  CANALS 
BY  A  RAILWAY,  TO  BE  CONSTRUCTED  SUBSIDIARY 
THERETO. 

Hearing  before  the  Canal  Committee  of  the  Assembly  in  the 
matter  of  the  construction  of  a  railroad  between  Buffalo  and  Al- 
bany along  the  banks  of  the  Erie  and  Oswego  Canals,  for  the 
towage  of  canal  boats,  etc. 

Present  of  the  Committee,  Messrs.  Hurd,  Sheard,  Stewart, 
Davis  and  Penfield.  The  Chairman  asked  if  there  were  any 
gentlemen  who  desired  to  be  heard  on  the  bill  introduced  by  Mr. 
Davis,  providing  for  the  laying  of  tracks  on  the  banks 
of  the  Erie  Canal  for  the  purpose  of  towing  boats,  and  being 
answered  in  the  affirmative,  the  Clerk  was  ordered  to  read  the 
bill  through. 

1  An  Act  to  introduce,  without  expense  to  the  State,  an 

2  improved  system  of  towage  upon  the  canals  by  a 

3  railway  to  be  constructed  subsidiary  thereto. 

1  TJie  People  of  the  State  of  New  York,  represented  in 

2  Senate  and  Assembly,  do  hereby  enact  as  follows  : 

1  Section  1.    The  Buffalo,  Syracuse,  and  Albany  Rail- 

2  road  Company,  being  organized,  incorporated  and  exist- 

3  ing  under  and  by  virtue  of  the  provisions  of  an  act  of 

4  the  Legislature  of  this  State,  entitled  "An  act  to  au- 

5  thorize  the  formation  of  railroad  corporations,  and  to 

6  regulate  the  same;"  passed  April  2nd,  f850,  and  the 

7  laws  amendatory  thereof  and  supplementary  thereto, 

8  and  said  Company  having  acquired  thereby  all  the  fran- 

9  chises  of  a  railroad  in  this  State,  through  the  countie 

10  of  Erie,  Niagara,   Orleans,  Munroe,  Wayne,  Ontario, 

11  Seneca,  Cayuga,  Onondaga,  Madison,  Oneida,  Herki- 


3-: 


12  mer,  Montgomery,  Schenectady,  Livingston,  Wyoming, 

13  Alleghany,   Cattaraugus,    Oswego,    Lewis,  Jefferson, 

14  Chenango,  Broome  and  Albany,  between  Buffalo  and 

15  the  Hudson  River,  and  Oswego  and  the  Hudson  River, 

16  and  having  a  projected  line,  as  exhibited  by  the  maps 

17  filed  in  the  said  counties,  coincident  with  the  canals  or 

18  banks  thereof,  situate  within  said  counties  ;  and  said 

19  company  being  willing  and  desirous  to  contract  for  the 

20  towing  of  boats  and  floats  upon  the  canals  of  this  State 

21  at  a  large  reduction  from  the  present  cost  thereof,  and 

22  to  improve  the  banks  of  said  canals,  and  to  construct  the 

23  necessary  structures,  crossings,  roadways  and  gradings, 

24  without  cost  to  the  State,  and  to  lay  its  tracks,  and  to 

25  convey  freight  arid  passengers  as  well  when  said  canals 

26  shall  be  closed  as  at  all  other  seasons  of  the  year,  upon 

27  the  terms  stated  in  this  act ;  and  said  company  being 

28  willing  to  transfer  to  the  State  in  perpetuity  the  said 

29  structures,  crossings  and  roadways,  tracks,  telegraphs 

30  and  fixtures  immediately  on  the  construction  thereof, 

31  under  the  approval  of  the  proper  officers  of  the  State, 

32  as  hereinafter  mentioned,  reserving  only  the  right  to 

33  the  limited  use  thereof,  as  contemplated  by  this  act. 

34  Now  in  order  to  diminish  the  cost  of  the  maintenance 

35  and  repair  of  the  canals,  and  to  increase  their  efficiency, 

36  and  to  introduce  improvements  thereon,  without  ex- 

37  pense  |o  the  State,  the  Land  Commissioners  and  Superin- 

38  tendent  of  Public  Works  are  hereby  authorized,  em- 

39  powered  and  directed,  upon  the  request  of  said  railroad 

40  company,  to  contract  for  and  on  behalf  of  the  State  with 

41  the  said  Buffalo,  Syracuse  and  Albany  Railroad  Com- 

42  pan}%  its  successors  or  assigns,  to  exercise  their  corpo- 


43  rate  franchises  upon  the  banks  of  the  canals  of  the  State 

44  of  New  York,  for  the  purpose  of  carrying  out  the  pro- 

45  visions  of  this  act,  subject,  nevertheless,  to  the  control 

46  and  management  of  the  said  canals,  as  now  vested  in 

47  the  State,  under  the  Constitution  of  ihe  State  of  New 

48  York,  and  to  construct  such  structures  and  crossings, 

49  and  to  make  such  gradings  and  roadways  as  may  be 

50  necessary  for  the  purpose  of  introducing  upon  the 

51  canals  of  this  State  a  system  of  towage  by  locomotives 

52  upon  the  banks,  and  of  securing  cheap  transportation, 

53  without  expense  to  the  State,  in  such  manner  and  upon 

54  such  terms,  subject  to  the  control  and  management  as 

55  aforesaid,  in  addition  to  those  hereinafter  stated,  as  shall 

56  be  approved  by  the  Superintendent  of  Public  Works. 

57  Said  system  and  structures  shall  not  interfere  with 

58  navigation  in  the  said  canals,  nor  with  the  management 

59  thereof  by  the  proper  officers  of  the  State,  nor  with  the 

60  free  and  unrestricted  use  of  the  said  canals,  as  now  pro- 

61  vided  by  law. 

62  All  the  structures,  roadways,  telegraphs  and  other 

63  fixtures  placed  upon  the  banks  of  the  canals  shall  at 

64  once  be  and  become  the  property  of  and  be  Vested  in  the 

65  State  of  New  York,  and  in  addition  thereto  the  said 

66  railroad  company  shall  convey  to  the  Commissioners  of 

67  the  Canal  Fund,  without  cost  to  the  State,  one  million 

68  dollars  of  their  capital  stock,  at  par,  as  a  special  sink- 

69  ing  fund,  to  be  accumulated  and  disposed  of  as  herein- 

70  after  provided  for. 


4 


1  Section  II,  The  said  railroad  company,  its  successors 

2  or  assigns,  shall  agree  to  tow  for  hire,  by  their  locomo- 

3  tives  or  by  animal  power,  each  boat  or  float  that  may  be 

4  offered,  loaded  or  unloaded,  at  ten  cents  per  boat  per 

5  mile  for  any  (greater  or  less)  distance  ;  and  they  shall 

6  agree  at  all  seasons  of  the  year,  whether  the  canals  shall 

7  be  closed  or  not,  to  transport  freight  and  passengers  on 

8  the  roadways  along  said  canals,  under  the  approval  of 

9  the  Superintendent  of  Public  Works,  and  to  run  trains 

10  for  such  purposes,  at  a  charge  for  freight  not  exceeding 

11  three-quarters  of  a  cent  per  ton  per  mile  for  through 

12  freight,  and  not  exceeding  one  and  one -half  cents  per 

13  ton  per  mile,  and  twenty  cents  for  loading  or  unloading 

14  local  freights,  in  all  cases  in  quantities  not  less  than  a 

15  car  load,  and  in  less  amounts  such  uniform  rates  as  the 

16  railroad  company  may  establish ;  and  at  a  charge  for 

17  passengers,  through  or  local,  at  rates  not  exceeding  one 

18  and  one-half  cents  per  mile  ;  and  through  freights 

19  under  this  section  are  hereby  defined  to  mean  freight  in 

20  quantities  not  less  than  a  car  load,  starting  from  any 

21  point  on  said  road,  to  be  carried  to  its  eastern  or  west- 

22  ern  terminus,  or  starting  from  either  terminus,  to  be  de- 

23  livered  at  any  one  point  on  said  road. 

1  Section  III.  The  said  railroad  company  shall  agree  to 

2  apply  its  earnings  derived  from  said  traffic  as  follows  : 

3  First. — To  pay  to  the  Commissioners  of  the  Canal 

4  Fund  as  and  for  a  dividend  on  the  one  million  dollars 

5  worth  of  stock,  to  be  transferred  to  said  Commissioners 

6  as  specified  in  Section  1  of  this  act,  five  per  cent,  semi- 


5 


7  annually  on  the  par  value  of  said  stock  ;  said  dividends 

8  to  commence  from  and  after  the  time  the  work  contem- 

9  plated  in  this  act  shall  be  completed  between  Buffalo 

10  and  Albany. 

11  Second.— To  keep  all  the  structures,  roadways  tele- 

12  graphs  and  other  fixtures  to  be  constructed  as  aforesaid, 

13  in  good  order  and  repair. 

14  Third.— To  the  payment  of  all  the  operating  expenses 

15  of  the  company  under  the  contract  mentioned  in  this  act. 

16  Fourth.*— Ho  the  payment  of  all  interest  which  may  be 

17  due  upon  the  bonds  of  the  said  road  and  the  dividends 

18  on  the  stock  not  exceeding  five  per  cent,  semi-annually, 

19  and  all  surplus  income  shall  be  paid  annually  to  the 

20  Commissioners  of  the  Canal  Fund,  who  are  hereby  au- 

21  thorized,  empowered  and  directed  annually  to  appro - 

22  priate  the  same  as  follows,  that  is  to  say:  One-half 

23  thereof,  in  whole  or  in  part,  towards  the  reduction  of  the 

24  principal  of  the  canal  debt  of  the  State,  or,  in  the  dis- 

25  cretion  of  said  Commissioners,  in  whole  or  in  part,  to- 

26  wards  the  reduction  of  the  tolls  on  the  said  canals  ;  and 

27  the  other  half  of  said  surplus  income  shall  be  annually 

28  appropriated  towards  the  sinking  fund  hereby  author- 

29  ized  and  directed  to  be  created  by  said  Commissioners 

30  from  the  said  one  million  dollars  worth  of  stock  and  its 

31  accumulation,  as  in  this  act  provided  for.    The  disposi- 

32  tion  of  said  surplus  income,  as  in  this  act  specified,  shall 

33  so  continue  until  all  the  bonds  and  stock  of  the  said 

34  railroad  company  shall  be  vested  in  the  Commissioners 

35  of  the  Canal  Fund  as  and  for  the  property  of  the  State  ; 


6 


86  and  w  hen  all  the  bonds  atnd stock  of  said  railroad  com- 

37  pany  shall  have  been  purchased  as  aforesaid,  the  whole 

38  of  said  surplus  income  shall  be  appropriated  for  the  or- 

39  dinary  expenses  of  management  and  repair  of  the  said 

40  canals,  unless  the  Legislature  shall  otherwise  direct. 

41  The  said  Commissioners  shall  receive  all  interest  which 

42  shall  accrue  on  the  bonds  and  all  dividends  which  shall 

43  be  declared  on  the  stock  in  their  hands,  and  shall  use 

44  such  interest  and  dividends  to  purchase  other  bonds  and 

45  stock  of  the  said  company  at  a  price  not  exceeding  one 

46  hundred  and  thirty  dollars  on  each  one  hundred  dollars 

47  of  the  bonds  of  said  railroad  company  at  their  par 

48  value,  and  one  hundred  and  fifty  dollars  on  each  one 

49  hundred  dollars  of  said  stock  at  its  par  value;  and  no 

50  stock  or  bonds  shall  be  issued  by  the  said  company  after 

51  making  said  contract,  except  the  said  stock  or  bonds  be 

52  subject  to  the  foregoing  conditions,  and  the  persons  to 

53  whom  the  same  shall  be  issued,  as  well  as  the  present 

54  owners  of  such  stock  and  bonds,  shall  in  writing  express 

55  their  assent  thereto  and  agree  to  sell  the  same  to  the 

56  said  Commissioners  on  demand  at  the  above  mentioned 

57  prices.    And  in  and  by  said  contract  the  said  railroad 

58  company  shall  expressly  agree  to  each  and  all  the  fore- 

59  going  provisions. 

1  Section  IV.— Whenever  the  said  Commissioners  shall 

2  have  In  their  hands  a  sufficient  and  proper  amount  of 

3  the  sinking  fund  herein  provided  for,  for  investment, 

4  they  shall  give  public  notice  by  advertisement  to  be  in- 

5  serted  daily  for  at  least  fifteen  days  in  at  least  two  daily 

6  newspapers  published  in  the  City  of  New  York  of  their 


? 


7  intention  to  invest,  specifying  the  amount,  and  inviting 

8  proposals  for  stock  or  bonds  of  the  said  railroad  com- 

9  pany,  the  lowest  of  which  proposals  shall  be  accepted, 

10  provided  the  same  shall  be  below  the  sums  hereinbefore 

11  specified. 

12  In  case  adequate  proposals  shall  not  be  received,  the 

13  said  Commissioners  shall  demand  and  purchase  stock  or 

14  bonds,  as  herein  otherwise  provided  for. 

• 

1  Section  V.— The  contract  by  this  act  authorized  shall 

2  in  terms  continue  until  the  entire  interest  and  ownership 

3  of  the  said  railroad  company  shall  be  and  become  vested 

4  in  the  State  as  hereinbefore  provided  for,  and  shall  in- 

5  elude  the  reciprocal  terms  and  provisions  in  this  act  spe- 

6  cified,  and  such  other  reasonable  agreements  and  condi- 

7  tions  for  the  better  carrying  out  of  the  intents  and  pur- 

8  poses  of  this  act,  as  the  Superintendent  of  Public  Works 

9  and  Land  Commissioners  on  behalf  of  the  State  and  said 

10  company  may  agree  to,  together  with  a  provision  that 

11  the  system  of  towage  hereby  authorized  shall  be  subject 

12  to  the  rules  and  regulations  prescribed  by  the  Superin- 

13  tendent  of  Public  Works  for  the  navigation  and  use  of 

14  the  canals  ;  and  also  a  provision  that  in  case  the  said 

15  railroad  company,  its  successors  or  assigns,  shall  neglect 

16  or  fail  to  introduce  said  system  of  towage  on  the  Erie 

17  and  Oswego  canals,  between  the  Hudson  river  and  the 

18  cities  of  Buffalo  and  Oswego,  within  three  years,  unless 

19  prevented  by  legal  proceedings,  after  the  contract  au- 

20  thorized  by  this  act  shall  have  been  made,   then  said 

21  contract,  at  the  option  of  the  Superintendent  of  Public 


8 


22  Works  and  Land  Commissioners  on  behalf  of  the  State, 

23  shall  cease  and  determine. 

1  Section  VI.— The  Superintendent  of  Public  Works 

2  is  hereby  charged  with  the  execution  of  this  act  con- 

3  cerning  the  navigation  and  improvement  of  the  canals 

4  as  herein  contemplated,  and  the  other  State  officers  re- 

5  ferred  to  herein  are  required  to  do  every  act  and  thing 

6  necessary  to  carry  into  effect  the  provisions  of  this  act 

7  wherever  the  same  refers  to  them. 

• 

1     Section  VII.  —  This  act  shall  take  effect  immediately. 

Mr.  Crane  said  he  appeared  on  behalf  of  the  Buffalo,  Syra- 
cuse and  Albany  Railroad,  but  should  be  glad  before  proceed- 
ing to  make  any  remarks  to  know  if  there  were  any  who  wished 
to  be  heard  in  opposition  or  in  favor  of  the  bill,  and  also  the 
length  of  time  that  the  committee  would  set  apart  for  hearing. 
He  said  he  would  prefer  to  state  his  part  of  the  case  continu- 
ously, and  if  not  finished  to-day,  to  go  on  to-morrow.  It  would 
take  them  till  then  to  accomplish  their  part  of  the  case. 

The  Chairman  stated  that,  so  far  as  he  knew,  they  would  be 
able  to  go  on  to-morrow,  if  necessary,  and  that  the  hearing 
would  be  set  down  to-morrow  for  the  afternoon,  the  same  as 
to-day.  This  evening  the  committee  would  hold  session  till 
tea-time. 

Mr.  Crane  then  proceeded  with  his  argument,  as  follows  : 

This  bill,  gentlemen,  that  you  have  before  you,  is  one,  prob- 
ably, of  greater  importance  in  its  effect  upon  the  present  lines  of 
communication,  than  arfy  other  bill  offered  or  introduced  into 
the  Assembly  since  the  enlargement  of  the  Erie  Canal;  and  if  it 
operates  as  we  expect,  it  will  produce  a  greater  revolution  in 
transportation  than  that  enlargement  produced.  It  is  a  matter 
of  great  import.  It  affects  capital  now  invested  to  an  extent, 
probably,  that  very  few,  if  any,  of  you  are  aware  of.    It  affects 


9 

the  interests  of  the  people  of  your  own  State,  and  of  the  whole 
Northwest,  both  now  and  hereafter,  probably,  more  than  any 
other  question  that  has  been  considered  within  the  last  thirty 
years  in  your  Assembly.  Therefore,  I  beseech  for  it  a  careful 
and  candid  consideration.  We  have  no  axe  to  grind.  The  bill 
is  either  what  it  purports  to  be  on  its  face,  and  what  we  be- 
lieve it  to  be  in  reality — one  of  great  public  moment,  one  of 
great  public  interest — or  it  is  nothing. 

I  desire,  in  opening  this  case,  to  request  that,  if  there  are 
any  statements  made  here  which  are  not  proved  or  are  loose, 
the  members  of  this  committee  will  call  the  parties'  atten- 
tion to  it,  and  not  allow  one  step  to  be  taken  until  the  facts 
are  verified  by  incontrovertible  evidence.  In  order  that  you 
may  understand  the  interests  which  are  to  be  affected  by 
this  bill,  I  wish  you  to  go  with  me  first  to  Baltimore — a 
Southern  city  that  owns  and  controls  a  line  of  railroad  that  is 
affecting  to-day  New  York  city  and  the  other  seaboard  cities 
more  than  any  other  interests  between  the  East  and  the  West. 
The  merchants  of  Baltimore  since  1832  up  to  1877  have  had 
but  one  policy — that  is  Baltimore.  What  has  been  the  re- 
sult ?  Baltimore  controls  its  line  of  railway,  and  dictates  its 
policy  as  a  city  over  a  distance  of  about  840  miles,  to  a  point  of 
competition  lying  west  of  you,  to  Chicago  ;  and  while  you  have 
been  laying  your  four  tracks  in  New  York  and  taking  care  of 
your  canals,  that  city,  as  a  city,  has  been  extending  its  lines  of 
railroad,  and  when  a  few  years  ago  it  opened  its  line  to  Chicago, 
what  took  place  i 

Commodore  Yanderbilt,  the  great  railroad  king,  invited  Mr. 
Garrett,  from  Baltimore,  together  with  Mr.  Scott  of  the  Phila- 
delphia line,  and  Mr.  Jewett  of  the  Erie,  to  meet  him  in  New 
York.  The  public  prints  in  New  York  are  my  authority  for  the 
statement  that  Yanderbilt  invited  those  gentlemen  to  confer 
with  him  in  New  York  upon  this  question  of  railroad  transpor- 
tation. Garrett  replied  in  a  short  note  published  in  the  New 
York  Times  : 

1  'The  distance  is  no  greater  from  New  York  to  Baltimore 
than  from  Baltimore  to  New  York.  I  shall  be  pleased  to  see 
the  gentlemen  in  Baltimore. 

' 4  Respectfully  yours, 

"  Garrett." 


10  ' 

t 

Then  and  there,  for  the  first  time,  was  this  power  made  mani- 
fest to  probably  one  of  the  greatest  powers  in  railroading  on 
this  continent,  Vanderbilt  the  elder.  Did  he  go  to  Baltimore  i 
Yes,  sir.  What  sent  him  there  *  Because  a  power  existed  there 
which  he  had  failed  to  appreciate.  One  or  two  days  after,  the 
same  paper  says,  a  drawing-room  car  left  Jersey  City,  with  Mr. 
Jewett,  the  Commodore,  and  Mr.  Scott  on  board,  going  by  ex- 
press to^altimore.  The  Commodore  said,  "We  are  now  fight- 
ing and  contending  for  business,  and  what  is  the  use  of  cutting 
and  thrusting  at  each  other,  when  we  have  nothing  to  do  but  to 
agree  among  ourselves  in  regard  to  rates  and'come  to  some  ar- 
rangement, reduce  it  to  writing,  and  act  by  it."  This  was  done, 
and  the  great  Scott  and  Jewett  and  the  Commodore  agreed  to 
it,  but  Mr.  Garrett  says,  "  Ail  right ;  hold  on  a  minute  ;  your 
lines  are  longer  to  the  seaboard  from  Chicago  than  ours  is  to 
Baltimore,  and  for  that  reason  I  want  five  cents  a  hundred 
pounds  on  all  freight  coming  to  the  seaboard  less  to  Baltimore 
than  to  New  York.',  The  #  Commodore  said,  "We  can't  go 
that."  The  reply  was,  "  Then  we  may  as  well  stop  all  negotia- 
tion." How  was  it  settled  I  It  left  the  little  bit  of  corporation 
of  "Baltimore  and  Ohio,"  controlled  by  Baltimore,  masters  of 
the  situation,  and  they  have  been  masters  of  it  until  the  present. 
Your  railroad  companies,  ever  since  the  Commodore's  death, 
have  made  this  allowance  of  five  cents  a  hundred  to  the  Balti- 
more and  Ohio  Railroad,  and  the  same  combination  made  the 
arrangement  by  which  Philadelphia  was  to  have  her  freight  at 
three  cents  a  hundred  less  than  New  York  city. 

(This  agreement,  the  Speaker  stated,  Wm.  H.  Vanderbilt  en- 
tered into  to  prevent  a  railroad  war  of  extermination,  as  the 
New  Y^ork  Central  could  not  be  expected  to  fight  the  battle  in 
that  way.) 

Baltimore  has  a  line  of  railroad,  costing  substantially 
$86,000,000,  from  Baltimore  to  Chicago.  On  $36,000,000  of  this 
they  pay  no  interest.  That  is  the  cheapest  kind  of  money  to 
build  railroads  with  ;  you  can  get  nothing  cheaper  than  that. 
They  pay  no  interest  on  their  $36,000,000,  because  the  money 
came  from  the  earnings  of  the  road  over  and  above  the  dividends 
paid  on  the  stock  since  1861.  You  must  keep  this  in  mind  in 
order  to  understand  whether  New  York  can  be  made  the  cheap- 
est point  instead  of  the  third  in  rank  from  the  West  to  the  sea- 


11 


board.  The  remaining  part  of  the  capital  of  the  Baltimore  rail- 
road, $50,000,000,  is  about  the  amount  on  which  they  have  to  pay 
interest.  Then  the  Cumberland  Mountains,  having  120  feet 
up-grade,  going  West — a  crooked  road — has  this  compensation 
that,  coal  on  board  their  locomotives  costs  them  about  90  cents 
a  ton ;  and  coal,  water  and  locomotives  will  overcome  moun- 
tains. 

The  Pennsylvania  line,  which  holds  the  next  point  Against 
your  city,  has,  by  combination,  cheaper  rates  of  freight  to-day 
than  New  York,  both  on  that  coming  East  and  that  going  West. 
Philadelphia,  like  Baltimore,  was  the  originator  of  its  own 
road,  furnishing  a  large  portion  of  the  money  to  build  it,  and 
largely  influences  its  policy.  If  you  will  look  at  the  grain 
shipments  from  Philadelphia,  and  the  business  coming  from  the 
West  to  the  seaboard  for  the  last  three  years,  you  will  see  the 
effect  of  this  combination  as  regard  your  own  State.  That  line 
of  railroad,  crossing  the  Alleghany  Mountain  with  its  90  feet 
grades,  has  not  only  run  to  Philadelphia,  but  ic  has  absorbed 
the  lines  of  railroad  across  the  State  of  New  Jersey,  and  has 
made  New  York  city  connections,  and  reaches  their  steamers 
at  Philadelphia  by  three  cents  a  hundred  less  than  New  York. 
The  cost  of  their  line  of  railroad  is  about  180  odd  million  dollars, 
running  to  the  same  point  the  Baltimore  and  Ohio  road  reaches 
at  a  cost  of  only  $86,000,000.  If  you  follow  the  same  combina- 
tion to  Buffalo,  at  the  foot  of  Lake  Erie,  you  will  find  what  I 
found  three  years  ago.  Merchants  care  precious  little  whether 
the  in-freight  goes  to  New  York  or  not,  as  long  as  they  get  it 
shipped  on  board  the  steamer  three  cents  a  hundred  cheaper. 

New  York,  your  metropolis,  neither  owns  nor  controls  a  line 
of  railroad,  yet  your  great  trunk  line,  the  New  York  Cen- 
tral, with  comparatively  no  grade  to  overcome,  has  posses- 
sion of  the  only  natural  highway  from  the  seaboard  to  the  West. 
You  have  890,000,000,  as  appears  by  the  last  annual  report 
of  the  New  York  Central,  of  capital  stock,  and  you  have  in 
addition  a  bonded  debt  of  $40,000,000,  and  you  have  the 
Harlem  railroad,  with  its  capital  of  about  23  millions,  leased 
in  perpetuity  at  8  per  cent. 

On  the  other  hand,  your  great  line  of  the  Erie  has  passed 
through  divers  ramifications  till  it  stands  now  with  one  consol- 
idated mortgage  of  60  millions,  and  a  capital  stock  of  about  6o 


12 

millions  more,  a  majority  of  which  is  held  in  London,  where  its 
policy  is  dictated.  If  yon  go  west  of  Buffalo  and  make  the 
line  complete,  where  you  reach  the  point  of  competition  with 
Philadelphia  and  Baltimore,  you  have  the  Lake  Shore  rail- 
road, on  which  there  is  a  consolidated  mortgage  of  $50,000,000, 
and  a  capital  stock,  on  which  occasionally  a  dividend  is  paid 
of  $50,000,000  more,  making  an  aggregate  of  capital  by  the 
Shore  Re  of  about  $220,000,000,  as  against  Baltimore's 
$86,000,000.  The  Erie  railroad,  with  its  connections  on  the 
south  side  of  the  lake,  is  now  combining  with  the  Atlantic 
and  Great  Western.  It  is  very  important  for  you  to  under- 
stand what  interests  control  these  two  great  railroads.  Wm.  H. 
Vanderbilt  controls  the  first,  the  second  is  controlled  by  the 
syndicate  which  sits  in  London,  where  the  majority  of  all  the 
stock  of  the  Erie  railroad  has  been  transferred.  For 
that  stock  they  have  issued  certificates,  but  those  cer- 
tificates have  no  right  to  vote.  It  is  London  which 
makes  and  remakes  the  management  through  your  own 
State  of  the  line,  which  the  State  contributed  three  mil- 
lions to  build.  In  addition  to  the  ownership  on  the 
south  side  of  the  lake,  Vanderbilt  owns  the  Canada  Southern 
Railroad,  extending  to  Detroit,  probably  the  best  graded  line 
in  the  country.  I  have  examined  it.  It  lies  in  long  straight 
lines  with  easy  grades.  Locomotives  are  capable  of  taking  forty 
freight  cars  on  it  from  the  Detroit  river  to  the  city  of  Buffalo. 
That  line  was  built  to  form  a  continuous  line  with  one  to  be  built 
across  Michigan  to  Chicago,  which  failed  in  1873  during  the  panic. 
It  was  never  carried  out.  The  road  failed,  and  is  now  owned  by 
the  one  man  who  owns  your  New  York  Central.  That  interest, 
in  order  to  protect  itself  on  both  sides  of  the  lake,  owns  and 
controls  a  majority  of  the  road  from  Detroit  to  Chicago.  Take 
the  capital  of  the  Michigan  Central,  as  printed  in  the  reports 
(a  majority  held  by  Vanderbilt),  with  that  of  the  Canada 
Southern,  and  add  to  them  the  extension  to  Detroit,  and  you 
have  a  capital  for  the  line  running  through  Canada,  connecting 
your  New  York  Central  with  Chicago,  of  about  $200,000,000, 
on  which  interest  has  to  be  paid,  as  against  Baltimore's 
$50,000,000. 

Next  there  is  the  Grand  Trunk  Railroad,  of  Canada,  extending 
from  Chicago  to  Quebec,  which  built  the  international  bridge  at 
Buffalo,  thus  giving  it  a  connection  with  the  lines  of  railroads 


13 


through  your  State.  That  line  and  the  Great  Western  of  Canada 
are  owned  and  controlled  in  London.  That  and  the  Grand  Trunk 
have  been  made  comparatively  worthless,  growing  out  of  com- 
petition, but  although  longer  lines  to  the  seaboard  than  either 
of  the  others,  they,  like  Baltimore,  dictate  terms  to  all  the  others. 
These  are  the  powers  you  have  as  dividend-paying  roads  to  deal 
with  to-day.  The  Erie  railroad  and  the  New  York  Central  rail- 
road, through  the  London  interests,  harmonize  every  tim#  And 
they  harmonize  for  what  ?  Because  it  is  for  their  interest  to  do 
so.  They  do  not  consult  the  business  interests  of  New  York. 
Capital  consults  its  own  interest  every  time,  and  it  is  just  as 
natural  for  it  to  do  so  as  it  is  for  water  to  run  down  hill.  I  do 
not  blame  them  for  doing  so.  I  am  not  raising  these  questions 
with  a  spirit  of  fault-finding,  but  in  order  that  you  may  under- 
stand exactly  what  the  power  is  you  have  to  deal  with.  I 
mean  to  say  that  the  Erie  railroad,  through  the  London  syndi- 
cate and  the  one-man  power  at  New  York,  are  a  unit  in  action 
every  time  when  occasion  calls  for  it.  Next  to  that,  your  New 
York  combination  is  in  harmony  every  time  with  what  Phila- 
delphia wants,  because  the  Pennsylvania  Central  has  an  in- 
terest account  rolling  up  on  four  thousand  miles  of  leased 
railroads  that  has  made  for  Philadelphia  such  a  power,  both  in 
Congress  and  out  of  Congress,  that  it  was  fitly  illustrated  less 
than  two  years  ago  by  a  member  in  the  Pennsylvania  Legis- 
lature rising  in  his  seat  and  saying,  "I  move  that  a  com- 
mittee be  appointed  to  wait  upon  Tom  Scott  and  ask  if  he  has 
any  further  business,  to  say  so,  and  if  not,  we  will  adjourn." 

That  line  of  railroad  to-day,  with  its  4,000  miles  of  leased 
lines,  is  like  a  great  tree  taking  root  on  the  banks  of  the 
Delaware  and  extending  its  branches  to  Texas.  It  is  a  tre- 
mendous power,  which  w,ill  break  down  almost  any  man  who 
undertakes  to  give  it  his  constant,  daily  care.  It  broke  down 
Mr.  Scott,  and  sent  him  to  England  to  recruit. 

In  1869  I  had  occasion  to  investigate  your  canal,  and  I  want 
to  say  here  that  I  have  watched  the  Erie  canal  with  an  interest 
second  to  that  which  I  have  taken  in  no  public  work  on  this 
continent.  I  have  looked  upon  it  as  a  'great  bulwark  against 
the  land  sharks  growing  up  among  you.  In  1868  I  was  invited 
by  a  majority  of  the  Senate  of  Massachusetts,  as  a  railroad  man 
of  large  experience,  to  address  the  Legislature  on  the  question 


14 


of  transportation.  We  had  three  separate  meetings.  I  made 
these  remarks,  which  were  then  at  variance  with  all  precon- 
ceived notions  of  canal  and  railroad  men,  with  the  exception  of 
a  former  superintendent  of  a  Pennsylvania  railroad  line.  I 
said  :  "  Gentlemen,  a  line  of  railroad  such  as  Boston  has  from 
Albany,  passing  the  summit  of  the  Green  Mountains,  1,475  feet 
above  the  tide,  between  the  Hudson  and  the  Connecticut,  and 
a  sumn^t  of  840  feet  between  the  Connecticut  and  tide-water  to 
Boston,  passing  these  two  summits  with  a  double  track  from 
Albany,  at  eight  miles  an  hour  going  East  and  twelve  miles 
an  hour  going  West,  can  move  the  whole  tonnage  of  the  Erie 
canal  as  cheaply  as  that  canal  can  move  it  per  ton  per  mile 
from  Buffalo  to  Albany."  This  statement  was  called  in  ques- 
tion then  by  railroad  men,  by  the  president  of  the  road,  Mr. 
Chapin,  and  by  your  own  Mr.  William  J.  McAlpine,  former 
State  Engineer  of  the  State  of  New  York. 

I  then  said,  "This  transportation  question  is  one  affecting 
$700,000,000  of  your  annual  .manufacturing  interests  in  the 
State  of  Massachusetts,  and  your  true  interest  lies  to  ally 
yourselves  with  the  canal  at  Albany,  both  offensive  and  defen- 
sive, to  reduce  the  rates.  As  the  result  of  ibe  statement,  I 
recommended  that  inasmuch  as  it  was  not  expected  chat  the 
Legislature,  meeting  two  or  three  months  in  the  year,  should 
settle  these  great  questions  ;  that  they  should  appoint  five 
discreet  men  and  leave  it  with  them  to  settle  what  legislation 
was  necessary  to  secure  to  the  people  cheap  transportation,  and 
that  nothing  should  be  done  until  their^report  was  made.  The 
recommendation  was  passed  by  a  unanimous  vote.  The  com- 
mission of  five  was  appointed  ;  they  were  to  receive  no 
pay  for  their  services.  That  commission  made  its  report  in 
1870,  and  a  copy  of  it  was  sent  to.  your  State  Engineer. 
What  was  the  cost  of  canal  transportation — the  actual  cost  ? 
We  got  at  it  in  this  way.  It  is  susceptible  of  but  one  answer. 
Taking  the  cost  of  your  canal  transportation  for  ten  consecutive 
years,  commencing  with  1857,  from  the  annual  reports  as  shown 
by  your  Comptroller's  books — first,  there  were  the  expenses  to 
lock- tenders  for  taking  care  of  the  locks,  and  for  ordinary  and 
extraordinary  repairs.  This,  for  ten  years,  amounted  to 
$480,000  a  year.  I  asked  Mr.  McAlpine  if  the  State  of  New 
York  could,  from  1868  to  1878,  maintain  and  keep  the  canal  in 
repair  for  the  same  average  cost  as  for  the  previous  ten  years, 


15 


and  he  said  ' 'Yes."  $480,000  a  year,  then,  it  is  shown,  can 
maintain  and  keep  the  canals  in  repair.  Suppose  the  State  of 
New  York  takes  off  all  the  tolls,  can  the  railroads  compete  with 
the  canal  then  ;  will  the  diminishing  of  the  tolls  make  it  more 
profitable  to  the  boatmen  \  The  cost  of  moving  the  freight 
from  Albany  to  Boston,  cars  going  loaded  one  way  and  empty 
the  other,  moving  the  same  number  of  tons  that  was  moved 
on  the  Erie  Canal,  eight  miles  an  hour  going  East  and  twelve 
miles  going  West,  would  be  3|  mills  per  ton  a  mile.  Your  canals 
cost,  irrespective  of  repairs,  about  5  mills  a  ton  a  mile,  going 
loaded  one  way  and  empty  the  other.  Therefore,  the  Central 
railroad  from  Albany  to  Buffalo  can  move  the  whole  tonnage  of 
the  Erie  Canal  without  profit  or  loss,  at  over  30  per  cent,  less 
than  you  can  through  the  Erie  Canal  in  its  present  manage- 
ment. The  cost  of  repair  per  year,  if  my  memory  serves  me 
aright,  averages  about  $480,000  ;  it  averaged  that  from  1857  to 
1868.  What  will  it  now  cost,  with  the  water  in  the  canal  and 
,all  the  expenditures  made,  to  move  500,000  tons  of  freight 
from  Buffalo  to  Albany,  exclusive  of  loading  and  unloading  ? 
First,  there  is  the  interest  on  cost  of  the  boat,  and  the  annual  cost 
of  keeping  it  in  repair.  How  long,  with  the  annual  repairs  care- 
fully made,  4will  that  boat  last?  We  say  it  will  last  10  or  11 
years.  One- tenth  ot  the  life  of  the  boat  must  be  charged,  then, 
to  each  year's  business.  Another  item  is  the  labor  on  the  boat, 
that  is  to  say,  the  labor  of  the  captain,  the  men,  the  horses,  etc. 

If  you  wish  to  ascertain  how  much  freight  costs  you  where  you 
have  full  loads  always  in  one  direction  only,  that  is  the  way 
and  the  only  way  to  make  up  the  account.  T  found  there  were 
a  certain  number  of  boats  making  trips  for  the  last  ten  years  ; 
the  boats  make  so  many  trips;  the  actual  cost  of  each  is  so  much 
money,  and  so  many  boats  move  500,000  tons  of  freight,  and 
that  500,000  tons  of  freight  must  be  charged  with  all  the  expenses 
of  the  canal.  The  next  question  is,  what  will  it  now  cost  to 
move  a  second  500,000  tons  of  freight  from  Buffalo  to  Albany 
the  same  season,  shoeing  the  horses,  putting  the  boat  in  good 
condition,  etc.  It  will  cost  you  the  same  as  the  first  instance, 
less  the  amount  paid  the  State  for  Canal  expenses.  What 
will  the  third  500,000  tons  cost  you?  It  will  cost  you  just 
the  same  as  the  last — all  of  which  holds  true  until  the  limit  is 
reached  at  which  the  State  incurs  additional  expenses  on 
account  of  increased  business.    There  is  no  more  mistake  about 


16 


this  than  there  is  about  the  statement  that  two  and  two  make 
four.  It  is  the  actual  statement  of  the  facts  as  appears  from 
your  own  books. 

I  here  take  up  the  cost  of  railroad  freight.  You  will  say  that 
no  two  railroad  men  would  agree  with  you  in  that.  I  admit  it ; 
but  every  railroadman  will  agree  upon  this— that,  independent 
of  the  tolls,  if  the  State  were  to  lay  out,  to  keep  the  canal  in 
repair  $480,000  a  year,  the  cost  of  moving  freight  from  Buffalo 
to  Albany  is  within  a  fraction  of  5  mills  per  ton  per  mile,  if 
you  go  back  empty  ;  and  just  in  proportion  as  you  get  a  return 
freight,  so  you  will  diminish  the  cost.  Just  so  it  is  with  the  rail- 
road. What  are  the  charges  of  the  railroad  i  What  does  it 
cost  in  that  way  %  The  cost  of  the  New  York  Central  from 
Buffalo  to  Albany,  for  freight,  as  compared  with  the  canal,  is 
first  three  hundred  miles  of  rotten  ties  once  in  seven  years  on 
the  four  tracks  ;  one-seventh  of  this  is  to  be  put  upon  each 
year' s  business  ;  it  has  also  to  build  a  new  fence  from  here  to 
Buffalo  every  ten  years  ;  it  has  the  renewal  of  all  the  cross- 
ings from  Buffalo  to  Albany  once  in  about  five  years  ;  in 
addition  to  that  there  is  the  cost  of  removing  the  snow  from 
the  tracks,  which  varies,  as  some  years  you  have  it  and  some 
years  you  have  it  not;  then  there  are  rotten  platforms  and  rotten 
depots  to  be  rebuilt.  These  amounts  can  now  be  made  a  matter 
of  mathematical  certainty  after  an  experience  of  thirty  years,  and 
the  railroad  man  who  doubts  that  fact  must  be  ignorant  of  his 
business.  These  are  costs  that  are  to  be  incurred  before  you  put 
a  railroad  car  into  the  account.  Then  come  your  cars  and  locomo- 
tives; then  the  labor  and  everything  connected  with  it;  but  the 
greatest  question  of  all  is  the  question  of  speed. 

If  you  run  your  trains  laden  with  freight  at  a  high  rate  of 
speed,  why  then  you  must  foot  the  bills.  About  twenty  years 
ago  the  Beading  Railroad  sold  for  $8  to  $9  a  share;  their  notes 
went  to  protest;  and  the  brokers  who  put  the  stock  on  the  mar- 
ket, although  wealthy  men,  were  almost  mobbed  by  the  people 
because  they  put  what  was  then  thought  to  be  worthless  stock 
upon  the  market  to  take  the  place  of  money.  WThere  was  the 
trouble  ?  Why,  the  Reading  road  were  running  their  coal  trains 
at  a  rate  of  speed  ranging  from  twenty  to  twenty-five  miles  an 
hour.  That  was  what  was  ruining  the  road.  The  engineer, 
who  was  in  favor  of  the  canal  in  preference  to  the  railroad, 


17 


made  it  perfectly  plain  to  our  people  that  the  railroad  was 
worthless.  When  I  came  to  investigate  the  question  of  doing 
business  with  high  speed,  I  found  the  twear  and  tear  in 
consequence  would  eat  up  all  the  earnings.  Since  that 
time,  having  reduced  the  speed  to  eight  miles  per  hour,  they 
have  been  enabled  to  pay  5  per  cent,  dividends  semi-annually 
on  the  par  value  of  this  same  stock.  Take  your  own  line  from 
here  to  Buffalo — your  canal  working  at  the  rate  of  1£  miles  an 
hour,  for  instance — a  railroad  man  comes  along  and  says,  "I 
will  move  it  at  the  rate  of  20  miles  an  hour."  "  Yes,"  we  say, 
"  but  what  will  it  cost  you  ?  If  you  move  it  20  miles  an  hour 
you  must  pay  the  bills." 

•  In  1873  I  was  going  to  Buffalo  on  an  express  train  from 
Syracuse.  I  was  sitting  in  the  drawing-room  car  with  a  gentle- 
man, and*  we  passed  freight  trains  coining  at  the  rate  of  thirty 
miles  an  hour— four  trains  consecutively,  coming  one  right 
after  the  other.  I  remarked  to  my  friend,  "There  is  not  one 
ton  of  freight  on  those  trains  which  we  have  just  passed  for 
which  the  railroad  will  get  a  new  dollar  for  an  old  one,  because 
the  rates  of  speed  will  devour  all  the  earnings  ;  and  if  the  Cen- 
tral railroad  does  its  business  in  that  way,  it  will  fail."  The 
next  morning,  in  Buffalo,  on  taking  up  the  paper,  my  eye 
glanced  upon  an  accident  upon  the  New  York  Central. 

One  freight  train  passing  a  bridge  broke  its  axle  ;  before  it 
had  time  to  right  itself,  another  train  came  up  and  gave  it  a 
boost,  sending  it  into  the  river  ;  a  third  train  came  upon  the 
second  and  treated  it  likewise.  This  was  simply  because  they 
put  350  tons  of  cars  and  350  tons  of  freight  with  fifty  tons  of  a 
locomotive  at  a  speed  which  they  could  not  control. 

Is  there  any  way  in  which  the  State  of  New  York  can  lessen 
canal  transportation  so  that  it  will  be  cheaper  than  railroad 
transportation  during  times  of  navigation.  First,  it  was  at- 
tempted to  put  steam  upon  each  boat,  but  that  has  been 
abandoned  ;  the  next  question  was,  can  steam  tugs  be  used 
in  towing  your  boats  %  This  was  shown  to  be  dearer  than 
horses.  The  next  question  was,  if  you  owned  the  canal, 
what  would  you  do  with  it  ?  That  is  the  present  question. 
I  answer  it  by  saying,  I  would  grade  the  canal  banks,  grade 
at  the  locks,  and  then -lay  a  railroad  track  upon  each  side 
of  the  canal  from  Buffalo  to  Albany,  from  thence  continu- 
ing along  the  west  bank  of  the  Hudson  river  to  New  York. 


18 


When  done,  I  would  take  a  locomotive,  in  charge  of  one  man, 
and  connect  it  with  five  boats  carrying  1,200  tons  of  freight, 
and  take  the  fleet  from  Buffalo  to  Albany.  What  would  it 
cost  ?  I  found  if  I  had  no  interest  to  pay  upon  my  tracks,  if  I 
was  allowed  to  furnish  my  own  locomotives,  the  labor  and  wear 
and  tear,  etc.,  would  cost  about  thirty  cents  a  mile  for  five 
boats,  carrying  about  1,200  tons  of  freight,  and  no  iailroad 
could  ever  be  constructed  to  do  it  so  cheaply.  If  you  lay 
your  rails  to  draw  boats,  and  put  on  the  locomotives  to 
do  that  work,  then  why  not  lay  other  tracks?  What 
would  it  cost  to  fix  the  road  and  make  the  railroad  ulti- 
mately a  free  road  to  the  people — to  be  owned  by  the  State  of 
New  York?  I  came  to  the  conclusion  that  if  you  should 
duplicate  your  cars  with  lightness  and  strength  combined, 
there  is  no  railroad  in  this  country,  running  through  such 
a  section  as  from  Buffalo  to  New  York,  which  could  carry 
freight  at  so  small  cost,  and  with  so  easy  grades  as  that 
would  show.  And  I  said  the  people  own  it  now,  and  why 
should  they  not  forever?  It  will  interfere  with  nobody;  it 
will  pull  nobody  down.  It  is  like  a  man  about  to  build  a 
factory,  who  meets  another  having  a  loom  capable  of  making 
cotton  a  cent  a  yard  cheaper  than  by  the  old  form  ;  would  not 
the  manufacturer  at  once  adopt  the  loom  as  the  best  one  ?  would 
he  not  be  stupid  to  refuse  it  ?  Then  why  not  act  on  the  same 
principle  with  regard  to  the  canal  ?  Your  Constitution  prevents 
the  State  from  borrowing  money  and  doing  for  the  people  what 
ought  to  be  done  by  the  people  themselves.  Our  organization 
proposes  to  do  that — lay  the  tracks,  put  up  the  machine  shops, 
put  on  the  locomotives — after  which  it  proposes  to  make  the 
entire  road  the  property  of  the  State.  The  railroad  company, 
from  its  earnings,  are  to  keep  it  in  repair.  They  are  to  create 
a  sinking  fund  from  which  they  will  in  ten  years  make  it  refund 
every  dollar  it  has  cost  the  corporation,  with  premiums,  etc. 
At  this  point  I  wish  to  call  the  attention  of  the  committee  to  a 
witness.  I  wish  to  show  the  feasibility  of  this  plan  by  your 
Canal  Commissioners,  and  then  place  it  in  such  a  way  that  the 
public  are  protected  in  every  particular.  I  wish  to  put  this  bill 
in  such  a  form  as  shall  accomplish  these  ends  safely.  I  will 
be  glad  now,  without  going  further,  to  ask  Mr.  Barclay  a  few 
questions. 

Mr.  Crane  asked  Mr.  Barclay  the  following  questions  : 

f 


19 


Q.  Have  you  had  any  experience  in  canal  transportation  in 
past  years  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  think  so. 
Q.  What  has  your  experience  been  ? 

A.  I  have  had  an  experience  in  towing  boats  by  steam  on  the 
short  line  in  the  harbor  of  Whitehall.    I  procured  an  engine. 

Q.  I  think  you  don't,  understand  my  question.  How  long 
have  you  been  connected  with  the  Erie  Canal  ? 

A.  A  number  of  years  ;  a  Commissioner  of  the  State  for  three 
years. 

Q.  Have  you  had  any  experience  with  towing  by  steam  tugs 
on  the  canal  % 
A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  State  what  it  has  been,  what  you  found  it  ? 

A.  It  is  entirely  impracticable,  for  the  reason  that  the  steam 
tug  will  only  tow  two  or  three  boats,  and  the  wheel  has  a  tenden- 
cy to  tear  up  the  bottom  of  the  canal.  If  you  have  three  boats 
and  a  tug  you  have  a  loss  in  regard  to  lockage — the  lockage  of 
one  boat  on  the  whole  trip  and  the  carrying  capacity  of  one  boat — 
which  would  deduct  about  one-fourth  from  the  freight. 

Q.  What  is  your  experience  and  knowledge  with  regard  to 
the  use  of  steam  upon  the  boat  itself  1 

A.  It  is  liable  to  the  similar  objection  ;  one-fifth  of  the  carry- 
ing capacity  of  the  boat  will  be  required  to  carry  the  machinery 
and  fuel,  and  you  would,  with  one-fifth  deduction  for  that,  have 
to  make  five  trips  to  get  as  much  freight  as  with  four  trips  if 
you  had  the  whole  carrying  capacity  for  freight. 

Q.  Have  you  had  any  experience  about  the  Stevens  system  • 

A.  I  do  not  know  about  it,  but  it  would  be  open  to  the  same 
objection  as  the  other.  The  boat  would  have  to  carry  more  or 
less  machinery  and  fuel. 

Q.  What  is  your  opinion  as  to  the  best  method  of  applying 
steam  on  the  canal  ? 

A.  My  opinion  is,  that  putting  steam  on  the  tow-path  is  the 
most  practicable  and  cheapest  way  of  towing  by  steam,  for  that 
secures  you  your  whole  carrying  capacity  on  the  canal,  and 
your  whole  propelling  power  on  the  tow-path. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  make  any  experiments  in  relation  to  that 
while  you  were  Canal  Commissioner  % 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  in  Whitehall  Harbor,  on  a  slip  1,000  feet  long, 
we  had  a  locomotive  engine  hitched  to  two  boats  loads  of  ore, 


20 


and  a  steam  tug  at  the  other  end.  We  ran  one-eight  of  a  mile 
at  the  rate  of  four  miles  an  hour. 

By  the  Chairman. — You  did  not  meet  with  any  boats  in  try- 
ing the  experiment  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  go  through  any  locks  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  I  could  not  get  any  place  but  this,  with  a  rail- 
road track  ? 
Q.  What  depth  of  water  was  there  ? 
A.  Eight  or  nine  feet. 

Q.  Isn't  that  rather  deeper  than  the  canal  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir;  we  tried  .another  experiment  between  Troy  and 
Albany  % 

Q.  When  was  'this  \ 

A.  In  the  fall  of  1872  ;  we  towed  two  boat  loads  of  lumber 
from  West  Troy  to  Albany  with  a  steam  wagon  brought  from 
New  Jersey,  in  If  hours,  a  distance  of  six  miles  ;  the  line  broke. 

By  Mr.  Crane.— What  was  the  power  of  the  steam  wagon  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know  ;  it  would  snatch  a  boat  up  and  tow  at  the 
rate  of  three  or  four  miles  an  hour ;  it  was  a  large  engine  with 
three  wheels  a  foot  wide. 

By  the  Chairman. — Did  you  draw  the  boat  from  Troy  to 
Albany  1 

A.  Two  heavily  laden  boats  in  If  hours  for  a  distance  of  six 
miles. 

Q.  How  heavy  was  the  boat  load  3 

A.  I  suppose  240  tons  ;  the  engine  was  powerful,  and  the 
lines  would  not  hold  ;  we  didn't  provide  her  with  a  sufficient 
line  ;  we  could,  had  we  done  so,  have  come  down  at  the  rate  of 
four  miles  an  hour. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — You  would  get  up  a  good  deal  of  momen- 
tum or  headway  at  that  rate,  would  you  not  \ 

A.  No,  sir ;  not  very  much  ;  not  near  as  much  as  the  light 
boat  would. 

Q.  Could  you  tow,  on  an  average,  four  miles  an  hour  that 
way  % 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  much  water  did  the  boats  draw  % 


21 


A.  Six  feet. 

Q.  How  much  leeway  was  there  between  the  bottom  of  the 
boat  and  the  bottom  of  the  oanal  ? 

A.  About  a  foot ;  it  would  give  that  average  on  the  Erie 
Canal. 

Q.  With  that  leeway  you  could  run  four  miles  an  hour  and 
not  strike  the  bottom  % 

A.  From  3£  to  4  miles  an  hour  we  could. 

Q.  The  depth  in  the  places  were  the  experiment  was  tried 
was  about  8  feet  % 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  in  Whitehall  Harbor  it  was. 

Q.  It  is  less  than  that  on  the  Erie  Canal  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  recommended  the  Legislature  to  make  a  small 
appropriation  to  lay  the  track  down  between  Albany  and  West 
Troy  to  experiment  on,  and  as  there  was  a  great  many  applica- 
tions for  new  improvements. 

By  the  Chairman. — Do  you  think  there  would  be  any  diffi- 
culty experienced  in  getting  boats  through  the  locks  ;  they 
would  be  obliged  to  wait  some  time,  would  they  not,  for  you 
can  only  lock  through  one  boat  at  a  time  % 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  you  would  be  obliged  to  wait  a  little. 

Q.  How  much  for  a  boat  % 

A.  Four  to  five  minutes. 

Q.  Doesn't  it  take  fifteen  minutes  sometimes  \ 
A.  Not  if  properly  managed. 
Q.  Doesn' t  it  take  that  now  % 

A.  I  don't  know;  I  have  locked  boats  in  three  minutes,  fre- 
quently ;  you  have  double  locks,  and  put  a  short  line  on  the 
forward  line  and  a  long  line  on  the  other  side,  and  then  you  can 
manage  it. 

Q.  Suppose  you  were  to  lock  down  % 

A.  The  same  rule  applies. 

Q.  Would  you  pull  a  boat  with  a  line  attached  to  the  boat 
going  out ;  can  you  draw  a  boat  coming  in  by  a  boat  going 
out? 

A.  There  would  be  no  trouble  at  all  in  that. 
Q.  Would  it  not  be  apt  to  break  the  line  % 
A.  Your  towing  line  should  be  of  steel  wire. 
Q.  Would  that  be  flexible  enough  % 
A.  Yes,  sir  ;  gust  as  well  as  a  hemp  rope. 


22 


By  Mr..  Crane, — Is  your  report  in  print  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  year  was  it ! 

A.  In  1872. 

The  extract  from  the  report  was  here  read  by  the  Clerk  as  fol- 
lows : 

"I  believe  the  time  has  come  when  some  method  should  be 
devised  for  towing  boats  by  steam.  The  large  increase  of  ton- 
nage on  our  canals,  together  with  the  late  horse  epidemic,  ad- 
monishes us  that  propelling  boats  by  horse  power  can  no  longer 
be  depended  upon.  There  is  no  doubt  steam  can  be'  applied  to 
the  towing  of  boats  in  many  ways,  but  which  of  these  is  the  best 
is  a  problem  yet  to  be  solved.  The  plan  known  as  the  Belgium 
system  is  thought  to  be  practicable,  but  of  it  I  have  no  knowl- 
-edge.  The  method  of  having  the  propelling  power  in  the  same 
boat  that  carries|freight  is,  in  my  opinion,  open  to  serious  objec- 
tions ;  at  least  20  percent,  of  the  capacity  for  carrying  freight  is 
iost,  which  would  be  equal  to  a  loss  of  one  round  trip  daring  the 
season  of  navigation.  Besides,  the  wheel  of  the  propeller  is  lia- 
ble to  tear  out  slope- walls,  which  would  fall  in  the  bottom  of  the 
canal,  making  it  dangerous  [for  loaded  boats  to  pass  over,  and 
the  wheels  would  create  swells,  which  would  be  very  injurious 
to  the  banks  of  the  canal.  The  plan  of  towing  a  fleet  of  boats 
by  a  steam  tug  is  also  objectionable.  The  propeller  of  all  these 
tugs  or  boats  would  more  or  less  injure  the  bottom  of  the  slope- 
walls,  and  create  swells  which  would  be  injurious  to  the  banks; 
besides,  a  boat  with  her  machinery  and  fuel  on  board  will  re- 
quire 20  per  cent,  of  her  propelling  power  for  her  own  propul- 
sion, and  the  slip  of  the  wheel  (which  is  a  considerable  loss  of 
power)  leaves  less  than  eighty  per  cent,  to  be  used  in  propel- 
ling freight.  Again,  a  tug  could  tow  but  four  boats,  and  at  a 
rate  not  exceedingLf  rom  two  to  two  and  one-half  miles  per  hour. 
Another  objection  to  applying  steam  in  this  manner  is,  that  the 
tugs  have  to  be  locked  through  the  same  as  boats  loaded  with 
freight,  and  for  every  four  loads  of  freight,  there  would  be  an 
extra  '  lockage  (or  one-fifth  more  lockages  than  now),  which, 
from  Buffalo  to  Albany,  would  at  least  consume  one  day,  les- 
sening the  business  season  one  round  trip,  which  should  be 
obviated,  if  possible.  Then  there  would  be  one-fifth  more  wear 
and  tear  to  the  locks,  which  would  make  a  large  additional  ex- 
pense in  repairs.    An  experiment  made  during  the  past  season 


23 


at  Whitehall  (a  report  of  which  is  hereto  annexed  by  Mr.  J.  A. 
Allen,  civil  engineer,  who  was  present  and  assisted)  has 
strengthened  my  opinion  that  the  propelling  power  should  be 
put  upon  the  towing  path.  A  light  rail  laid  on  long  timber 
lengthwise,  bedded  in  the  tow-path  and  tied  together  so  it  could 
not  spread,  would  be  sufficient  to  carry  a  powerful  engine  with 
low  wheels.  Such  an  engine  would  tow  from  eight  to  ten  boats 
from  three  to  four  miles  an  hour,  thus  giving  the  whole  carry- 
ing capacity  of  the  canal  to  freight,  with  no  extra  lockage.  A 
track  built  in  this  way  would  not  interfere  with  towing  by 
horse  power,  which  could  be  used  at  such  places  as  Little  Falls, 
Cohoes,  etc.  Difficulty  might  be  apprehended  where  the  tow- 
ing path  changes  from  one  side  of  the  canal  to  the  other,  but 
this  could  be  easily  obviated  by  having  a  swing  bridge  with  a 
track  upon  it  to  run  the  engine  from  one  side  of  the  canal  to 
the  other.  Lowering  the  towing  path  slightly  under  the  bridges 
would  enable  the  engines  to  pass  under  without  difficulty.  In 
my  opinion,  the  track  should  be  built  and  the  engines  furnished 
at  the  expense  of  the  State,  and  towing  charged  and  collected 
at  reasonable  rates,  the  same  as  canal  tolls.  I  think  it  is  not 
too  much  to  say  that  the  cost  of  raising  and  grading  the  towing 
path,  worn  down  by  horses,  together  with  removal  of  slope- 
wall  and  other  material  drawn  into  the  canal  by  tow  lines  and 
tread  in  by  horses,  which  has  to  be  removed  every  year,  would 
in  five  years  equal  the  cost  of  laying  the  track  and  furnishing 
the  engines.  There  is  still  another  reason  in  favor  of  laying 
this  track.  In  case  a  large  number  of  boats  were  frozen  in, 
by  the  use  of  a  switch  all  the  freight  could  be  easily  transferred 
to  the  railways  at  a  slight  expense.  I  would  respectfully  re- 
commend to  the  Legislature  that  part  of  the  canal  between 
Albanyand  West  Troy  be  set  apart  for  experimental  trials  of 
any  invention  for  propelling  boats  by  steam,  and  that  an  ap- 
propriation of  $25,000  be  made  for  testing  the  plan  of  propel- 
ling by  steam  on  the  towing  path,  as  above  stated,  and  that  said 
appropriation  be  expended  under  the  authority  of  the  Canal 
Commissioners." 

Q.  Would  not  the  increased  speed  of  this  system  over  horse 
power  more  than  compensate  for  any  delays  at  locks  I 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  think  the  trip  could  be  made  at  about  eleven 
trips  by  the  new  system,  instead  of  seven,  as  is  now  made. 


24 

By  the  Chairman. — What  would  be  the  difficulty  in  meeting 
other  boats  coming  in  other  directions  I 

A.  If  the  track  were  on  both  sides  of  the  canal,  there  would 
be  no  difficulty  at  all. 

Q.  With  the  present  width  of  the  canal,  two  boats  passing, 
moving  at  that  rate  stated,  and  loaded,  the  water  would  natu- 
rally pile  up  and  the  boat  would  settle  in  the  water,  would  there 
be  depth  enough  of  water  then  ? 

A.  I  never  took  that  into  account ;  if  there  was  any  difficulty 
of  that  kind,  they  could  slow  up  when  they  came  within  a 
quarter  of  a  mile  of  each  other  ;  I  don't  think  there  would  be 
any  trouble  in  that  direction  ;  you  ucan  tow  a  boat  in  a  fleet 
with  less  power  than  separate.  The  forward  boat  creates  a  va- 
cuum and  the  next  boats  drop  into  it,  and  all  the  boats  appear 
as  though  they  were  running  down  hill. 

Q.  Then  you  would  not  maintain  your  seven  feet  of  water  ; 
there  must  be  a  very  serious  displacement  of  water  in  that 
case  ? 

A.  This  water  don't  get  into  the  vacuum  till  the  other  boat 
follows  it  up  ;  the  second  boat  don't  displace  so  much  waier. 

Q.  If  it  drops  into  the  vacuum,  it  certainly  displaces  a  por- 
tion of  water  i 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  but  not  a  large  amount  gets  in  before. 

By  Mr.  Crane. — Would  there  be  any  trouble  if  the  locomo- 
tives were  under  the  same  superintendent,  and  had  orders,  when 
at  a  certain  distance,  to  pass  each  other  at  a  certain  safe  rate  of 
speed,  would  there  be  any  difficulty  in  executing  such  an  or- 
der 1 

A.  Nor  a  bit. 

Q.  The  man  who  runs  the  locomotive  has  his  orders  about 
slowing  his  speed  when  meeting  another,  at  whatever  speed  is 
necessary  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  if  there  is  necessity  for  it. 

By  the  Chairman.— The  question  I  asked  is  merely  to  get  at 
the  facts. 

A.  I  am  glad  the  question  has  been  asked,  for  I  never  thought 
of  it,  and  there  may  be  something  in  it. 

Q.  The  problem  is,  cheap  transportation  bj'  increased  speed, 
if  vessels  are  obliged  to  slow  down  when  meeting  each  other, 
it  would  not  be  a  very  great  increase  ? 


25 


A.  Where  boats  come  in  fleets  they  would  not  meet  often, 
but  if  they  came  singly  they  would  meet  much  oftener. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — Would  it  be  necessary  to  go  any  slower 
when  you  pass  a  boat  in  towing  by  steam  or  in  towing  by 
horse  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

By  Mr  Crane. — In  going  back  with  a  light  loaded  boat,  is 
there  any  difficulty  in  going  a  speed  such  as  can  be  given  by 
three  or  four  horses  with  perfect  safety  to  the  canal  % 

A.  Not  a  bit. 

Q.  Three-fourths  of  the  boats  return  empty  or  with  very  little 
freight ;  an  hour  saved  in  going  back  light  loaded  is  just  as 
good  as  an  hour  saved  to  the  boatman  coming  down,  if  he 
makes  a  round  trip,  is  it  not  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  If  he  can  diminish  the  cost  as  stated  at  ten  cents,  making- 
eleven  trips  instead  of  seven,  then  the  boatman  has  got  some- 
thing better  than  if  you  took  all  the  tolls  and  gave  him  a  free 
canal ;  do  you  concur  in  that  view  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  there  is  a  new  system  of  canals  in  Canada  being- 
built  so  that  vessels  can  take  2,000  tons  of  grain  from  Chicago 
to  London,  and  unless  there  is  something  done  to  lessen  the 
cost  of  transportation  to  New  York  through  this  canal,  the 
result  will  be  that  Montreal  will  be  the  great  seaport  of  the 
great  West. 

By  the  Chairman. — Have  you  seen  those  canals  in  Canada 
personally  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  have  been  there. 

Q.  There  are  one-half  the  number  of  locks  qn  the  canals  from 
Buffalo  to  Albany  J 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  in  my  calculation  of  eleven  trips  instead  of 
seven,  I  have  included  all  the  locks  ;  though  I  should  not  have 
included  more  than  fifty,  I  have  made  my  calculation  including 
the  weightage  all  the  way  from  Troy,  which  ought  not  to  have 
been  done. 

Q.  With  that  calculation,  could  you  make  eleven  trips  instead 
of  seven  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir  ;  eleven  and  a  half. 


26 


.  Mr.  Crane. — When  I  was  in  Lockport  a  year  ago  last  fall, 
Mr.  Jackson  asked  how  I  would  get  through  Lockport ;  I 
asked  why  not  have  hydraulic  pressure  applied  there  ;  he  said, 
because  we  have  always  done  this  way.  The  most  difficult 
thing  that  I  have  met  as  a  railroad  man  in  drawing  boats  is  in 
the  cost  of  draught  ;  boats  will  have  to  wait  for  water.  There 
is  a  point  on  your  canal  where  they  cross  from  Syracuse  ;  I 
learned  from  Mr.  Jarvis  at  Rome  that  the  water  has  come  in  at 
Rome  to  fill  up  this  vacuum  ;  I  asked  if  there  was  any  trouble 
in  putting  a  guard  to  prevent  it  being  done  ;  he  said  "no,  but 
it  never  has  been  done  ;"  but  why  has  it  not  been  done,  it  is 
only  because  our  father  did  so  before  us. 

Q.  Is  there  not  plenty  of  water  on  the  level  between  Syra- 
cuse and  Oswego  river  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Could  not  an  engine  be  put  with  a  rotary  pump  to  pump 
the  water  in  when  necessary  ? 

A.  It  could  be  done,  and  this  railroad  company  need  not 
have  one  week's  delay  in  making  such  arrangements  ;  it  is 
practicable. 

By  the  Chairman. — Don't  you  find  the  same  difficulty  in  the 
Montezuma  level  % 

A.  I  have  had  nothing  to  do  with  it  ;  there  has  been  a  project 
of  deepening  it  there. 

Q.  Would  you  not  find  some  difficulty  in  laying  your  tracks 
through  large  cities  % 

A.  1  have  examined  the  subject  at  Utica,  Syracuse,  Roches- 
ter, and  all  the  leading  cities  with  a  skillful  engineer,  and  by 
crossing  from  one  side  to  the  other,  it  can  be  done  without 
interruption ;  you  have  got  to  cross  the  canal  and  use  your 
tracks  for  double  tracks  at  certain  places,  and  use  your  telegraph 
wires,  but  there  is  not  one  point  where  it  is  not  perfectly  feasi- 
ble to  accomplish. 

Q.  Where  and  what  is  the  longest  space  of  distance  where 
you  would  have  to  cross  and  continue  on  one  side  of  the 
canal  % 

A.  At  Little  Falls,  for  about  one  mile,  we  may  have  to  put 
all  four  tracks  on  one  side  ;  but  I  am  not  prepared  to  say  posi- 
tively that  we  should  have  to  do  it ;  I  would  want  to  take  the 
State  Engineer  and  State  Superintendent  of  Public  Works,  and 


27 


with  the  best  means  at  hand  and  the  best  talent,  determine 
what  could  be  done,  and  put  it  on  paper  and  bring  results  to  the 
Canal  Board  ;  it  could  be  done  so  cheaply  that  it  is  simply  mar- 
vellous that  it  has  not  been  done  before. 

By  the  Chairman.— -How  would  you  get  by  these  distances? 
A.  By  two  tracks  ;  locomotives  on  the  banks  of  the  canal, 
built  to  go  either  end  foremost. 
Q.  Then  you  want  turning  tables  | 

A.  No,  sir  ;  the  engines  are  built  to  go  either  end  forward  ; 
they  have  them  now  of  that  kind  in  Colorado  ;  they  are  build- 
ing them  in  Philadelphia  ;  there  is  no  practical  difficulty  in  the 
way  ;  it  is  not  such  a  line  of  railway  as  the  Central,  running  at 
thirty  or  forty  miles  an  hour,  but  it  is  feasible  and  practicable  ; 
I  didn't  know  before  that  Mr.  Buckley  had  made  any  such 
report  as  we  have  heard. 

Mr.  Buckley. — If  we  can  lay  those  tracks  down  cheap  and 
tow  our  boats  cheap  and  almost  double  our  speed,  we  can  com- 
pete with  the  Canada  canal. 

Mr.  Crane. — What  I  want  to  say  is  this,  that  the  larger  class 
of  vessels  on  Lake  Erie  from  Buffalo  to  the  West,  where  you 
have  got  breadth  of  beam  as  well  as  depth  of  water,  a  vessel 
from  Buffalo  to  Chicago  that  will  put  its  contents  of  1,200  tons 
on  board  of  five  canal  boats  can  be  worked  so  cheaply  in  this 
way  that  we  propose,  and  no  railroad  can  be  worked  so  cheaply 
as  from  Chicago  to  New  York  City.  We  have  all  a  deep  inter- 
est in  the  great  water  ways — all  New  England  has  an  interest 
in  them. 

By  the  Chairman. — What  do  you  think  it  would  cost  by  the 
ton  from  Buffalo  to  Albany  by  this  system  of  towage,  taking 
everything  into  consideration,  say  on  the  average  of  rowing 
boats  with  a  capacity  of  100  tons  % 

Mr.  Crane. — On  the  ocean  between  New  York  and  Liverpool, 
4  to  5,000  ton  ships  would  be  a  mill  a  ton  a  mile.  That  will 
support  the  vessel  and  no  more.  From  Buffalo  to  Chicago  it 
takes  two  mills  a  to  i  per  mile  on  just  such  vessels  as  navigate 
the  lakes  to-day,  without  profit  or  loss.  The  next  cheapest 
system  is  a  line  of  railway,  such  as  the  N.  Y.  Central,  carrying 


28 


large  quantities  of  freight  at  a  speed  of  eight  miles  ;  3^  mills 
per  ton  per  mile  will  keep  it  in  repair  without  profit  or  loss. 
Your  canal  as  it  is  run  now  costs  five  mills  a  ton  a  mile,  exclu- 
sive of  tolls. 

In  order  to  get  at  what  the  railroad  costs  as  compared  with 
this  system  and  the  mule  system,  it  is  necessary  to  get  at  the 
actual  cost  by  each  system. 

Mr.  Crane,  Mr.  McAlpin  and  myself  worked  it  out  in  this 
way.  Assuming  all  the  boats  to  carry  240  tons  from  Buffalo  to 
Albany,  what  will  it  cost  boats  of  this  capacity  to  do  the  work  ? 
Of  course  if  your  boats  are  of  a  less  tonnage,  it  will  cost  you 
more.  The  advantage  in  the  value  of  the  trade  will  give  you  a 
new  dollar  for  anold  one,  provided  the  State  keeps  the  canals 
in  repair.  Those  statements  ten  years  ago  were  called  in  ques- 
tion, but  what  is  the  result  ?  Four  boats  on  your  canal  go  to 
the  dead-house  for  every  living  one  put  on.  Why?  Because 
the  boatmen  make  no  money.  I  interrogated  boatmen  at  Sche- 
nectady, who  came  from  Buffalo,  in  regard  to  the  tonnage  cost 
of  working  the  boat,  time  taken  on  the  journey,  amount  of 
money  he  made,  and  I  found  that  the  man,  though  he  said  he 
had  his  wife  and  child  to  help  him  run  the  boat,  he  made  no 
money  at  the  end  of  the  year,  the  reason  being  that  the  rail- 
road rates  in  summer  ran  him  to  the  wall  ;  he  had  only  a  little 
time  in  the  fall  when  he  could  make  any  money.  He  estimated 
the  cost  of  the  mules  and  boys  at  about  18  cents  a  mile  down 
and  back.  Another  said  it  cost  him  16  cents  a  mile  down  and 
back,  and  the  lowest  amount  I  ever  knew  to  be  paid  for  this 
was  paid  by  a  man  who  said  he  was  brought  up  on  the  canal 
himself,  and  who  said  he  could  get  the  work  done  for  13  cents 
a  mile.  I  asked  him  if  he  took  into  consideration  the  value  of 
his  mules,  and  was  told  that  he  had  none  to  begin  on. 

By  the  Chairman. — Suppose  the  boats  going  into  a  lock 
should  spring  a  leak,  what  would  be  the  result  according  to 
your  system  i 

A .  Why  they  would  stop  over  one  train  and  take  the  next. 

Q.  Suppose  the  boats  were  towed  in  a  drydock,  what  then  ? 

A.  They  would  tow  them  in  and  tow  them  out  again — take 
all  the  contingencies.  If  your  Canal  Commissioners  acted  right, 
they  would  say  to  us.  If  you  are  going  to  do  the  work,  you 
must  do  it  all,  but  when  a  boat  gets  to  Albany  we  have  nothing 
to*do  with  it. 


29 


Q.  When  he  gets  to  Buffalo,  how  is  it  ? 

A.  We  arrange  with  the  tug-man  to  make  up  the  trains  with 
every  five  boats,  and  we  start  night  or  day  from  the  time  navi- 
gation opens  until  it  closes.  If  we  start  from  Buffalo,  we  will 
see  them  through,  or  if  we  start  from  Syracuse,  we  will  do  the 
same  thing. 

• 

The  Chairman. — You  think  that  ten  cents  per  mile  is  a  fair 
ratio  between  this  system  and  the  other  one  % 

Mr.  Crane. — We  do  for  ten  cents  what  it  costs  twenty  cents 
to  do  now. 

The  Chairman. — By  the  present  system  it  costs  $1.59  per  ton 
for  moving  freight  from  Buffalo  to  Albany  ;  by  this  new  system 
of  towing,  assuming  100  tons  to  the  boat,  it  would  cost  33  cents. 
I  want  to  ask  you  if  that  is  a  fair  ratio  between  the  two  charges 
in  your  opinion. 

Mr.  Crane. — There  is  not  a  boat  going  through  your  canal, 
empty  or  loaded,  small  or  big,  that  don't  cost  over  13  cents  a 
mile  to  draw  it.  If  a  man  wants  to  make  money  by  carrying 
freight  to  Albany,  and  sees  fit  to  carry  100  tons  where  he  ought 
to  carry  240,  he  deserves  to  fail. 

The  Chairman. — You  get  the  same  pay  for  towing  a  heavy 
boat  as  an  empty  one  ? 

Mr.  Crane. — What  is  the  effect  of  this?  It  is  a  terrible 
thing.  You  are  dealing  with  great  problems  with  10,  with  100, 
with  1,000  tons  of  freight.  Will  you  block  up  your  canal  with 
something  that  is  going  to  destroy  your  business  %  Our  object 
is  to  make  transportation  so  cheap  that  a  man  cannot  afford  to 
put  his  horse  on  the  canal. 

Mr.  Sheard. — Thirteen  cents  a  boat  a  mile  only  covers  the 
cost  of  the  mules  and  the  boys — it  has  nothing  to  do  with 
the  hands  on  the  boat.  It  covers  only  the  amount  of  mules, 
horses  and  boys.  You  may  turn  around  and  see  how  many 
boats  there  are  and  how  many  hands  on  the  boats.  If  it 
costs  $4,000  a  day  to  work  them,  what  will  it  come  to  at  ten 
cents  a  boat  a  mile  to  do  the  same  work  %  It  will  come  to 
less  than  half  ;  in  other  words,  less  than  $2,000  a  day  for 


30 


flie  boatmen  to  do  it  than  the  present  method  at  $4,000,  with- 
out taking  into  consideration  the  speed. 

The  Chairman.— Your  intention  is,  that  the  State  shall 
eventually  be  the  owners  of  the  road  % 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  we  will  make  a  bargain  with  your  Canal  Board 
that  as  fast  as  the  rails  are  laid  they  will  be  the  property  of  the 
State. 

The  Chairman. — This  is  to  be  a  railroad  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  stated  that  cities  compete  where  railroads  combine  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  but  New  York  to-day  owns  no  railroad,  Boston 
owns  no  railroad,  and  I  am  at  work  to  see  how  the  State  of 
New  York  can  in  ten  years  have  this  railroad,  and  own  it  from 
Buffalo  to  New  York  city,  that  shall  give  it  power  to  say  how 
much  you  will  charge  for  freight  without  having  any  legislation, 
because  that  thing  done  in  good  faith  will  do  its  work  effectu- 
ally. 

The  Chairman. — It  is  your  desire  that  the  Canal  Board  shall 
regulate  the  freights  from  time  to  time  ? 

Mr.  Crane.— The  rates  are  fixed  at  a  limit  beyond  which 
they  cannot  go. 

The  Chaibman. — Can't  they  deviate  from  the  charge  ? 

Mr.  Crane. — The  State  owns  the  whole  of  it. 

The  Chairman. — Our  trunk  lines  originally  had  their  rates 
fixed  one  way,  but  other  legislation  struck  the  rates  off  ;  why 
not  suppose  that  in  this  case  other  legislation  can  lower  the 
rates  ? 

A.  Yes  ;  and  we  can  do  the  rates  so  cheaply  that  Baltimore 
cannot  come  down  to  a  point  to  do  it  and  pay  interest  on  $50,- 
000,000. 

Mr.  Sheard. — How  do  you  propose  to  get  from  here  down 
to  New  York  !( 

A.  I  am  going  to  show  that,  by  witnesses,  it  would  extend  it- 
self to  the  State  line  to  New  Jersey,  reaching  the  Jersey  shore 
with  very  little  money  ;  a  railroad  from  Buffalo  to  Albany  with- 


m 

out  an  outlet  to  New  York  is  not  a  paying  institution.  If  you 
put  this  line  at  1|  cents  a  mile  and  ticket  a  man  through  to 
New  York,  then  you  give  him  something,  and  all  the  old  rail- 
roads will  turn  around  and  say  we  can  do  as  much  as  they  can. 

Mk.  Sheard. — Why  didn't  you  build  the  road  on  the  pro- 
posed route  of  the  south  side  of  the  Mohawk  \ 

A.  The  land  damages  alone  between  here  and  Buffalo  would 
build  the  whole  railroad  upon  the  canal. 

Mr.  Sheard. — You  can  build  so  much  cheaper  on  the  canal 
so  as  to  make  the  comparative  cost  of  running  it  below  that  of 
any  road  that  is  now  built,  or  that  can  be  built  in  the  future  i 
,  A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  take  it  that  your  motive  is  to  increase  the  traffic  in  New 
York? 

A.  The  motive  is  fcto  cheapen  freight  traffic  by  utilizing  the 
Erie  and  Oswego  canals  ;  that  'the  Welland  canal  will  be  out- 
bid, and  Buffalo  and  Oswego  will  have  an  outlet  in  the  winter 
as  well  as  in  the  summer. 

Mr.  Sheard. — What  is  the  maximum  tonnage  that  you  pro- 
pose to  tow  on  this  canal  to  provide  for  the  sinking  fund  ? 

A.  We  could  safely  count  on  the  Central  doing  7,500,000  tons 
a  year  ;  we  expect  to  take  about  one-quarter  of  the  freight  of 
the  Central ;  that  is  all  we  expect  to  get. 

The  Chairman. — The  canals  carried  about  5,000,000  last 
year? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  and  the  Central  road  carried  over  7,000,000  tons 
of  freight. 

Ex-Canal  Commissioner  Darius  A.  Ogden  was  then  called  and 
questioned  by  Mr.  Crane  : 

Q.  Did  you  hear  the  testimony  of  ex-Canal  Commissioner 
Alex.  Barkley  % 

A.  I  did. 

Q.  Have  you  listened  to  the  statements  that  have  been  made 
by  myself,  and,  if  so,  what  are  your  views  in  relation  to  this 
subject  \ 

A.  I  concur  entirely  with  the  views  as  expressed  by  Mr. 
Barkley,  and  I  think  the  plan  both  practical  and  feasible  ;  and, 


32 

in  my  judgment,  it  is  the  best  thing  to  be  done.  It  would  save 
the  State  annually  a  large  sum  in  the  repairs  upon  the  canal 
banks.  The  men  employed  by  the  railroad  in  taking  care  of 
their  tracks  will  furnish  a  set  of  watchmen  along  the  line  of 
great  value  to  the  State.  In  case  of  any  break  in  the  canal,  the 
use  of  the  railroad,  with  their  gravel  trains  put  in  requisition, 
will  enable  the  work  to  be  done  in  less  than  one-half  the  time 
and  cost,  and  I  give  the  plan  my  most  hearty  indorsement. 

Adjourned  until  3:30,  March  20,  '79. 


SECOND  DAY'S  HEARING. 


Thursday,  March  20,  1879. 

Mr.  Crane. — I  intended  to  have  Mr.  Jarvis  here  as  a  witness, 
but  he  is  unable  to  be  here  to-day  :  I  will  read  a  letter  which  I 
received  from  him  : 

LETTER  FROM  JOHN  B.  JARVIS. 

Rome,  N.  Y.,  17th  March,  1879. 

Edwd.  Crane,  Esq., 

Delavan  House,  Albany,  N.  Y. 

Dear  Sir: — Mr.  Frothingham  called  on  me  last  Saturday 
with  your  request  that  I  should  appear  on  Wednesday,  (19th) 
before  Assembly  Committee  on  Canals,  in  reference  to  the  pro- 
ject of  towing  boats  on  the  State  canals  by  means  of  locomotive 
steam. 

I  would  go  to  Albany  for  this  object  as  soon  as  any  other, 
but  my  age  admonishes  me  to  be  cautious,  and  at  this  season  it 
would  not  be  prudent  for  me  to  do  so. 

As  I  have  fully  stated  my  views  in  my  article,  published  in 
the  International  of  May  last,  I  do  not  see  any  necessity  for 
me  to  go  before  the  committee.    My  opinion  is  there  fully  set 


33 


forth,  and  I  could  only  say  subsequent  reflection  has  confirmed 
them. 

I  can  see  no  method  by  which  economy  in  canal  transporta- 
tion can  more  effectually  be  secured  between  the  lakes  and  the 
Hudson. 

I  notice  the  State  Engineer  recommends  measures  to  give  one 
foot  additional  draft  to  the  canals  ;  this  will  be  a  valuable  im- 
provement. 

I  understand  he  is  also  eagaged  in  measures  to  improve  the 
handling  of  the  locks  on  the  canal,  by  which  an  important  sav- 
ing will  be  effected  in  the  time  for  boats  in  passing  the  locks. 

These  are  both  important  to  canal  economy,  and  with  towing 
by  locomotive  engines  will  secure,  in  my  judgment,  the  neces- 
sary economy  to  enable  boats  to  compete  successfully  with  rail 
transportation,  and  secures  to  the  canal  the  great  traffic  of  the 
lakes. 

I  have  no  faith  the  people  will  long  sustain  a  free  canal  by 
taxes,  even  if  it  were  made  a  constitutional  provision.  The 
only  way  is  to  put  the  canal  in  a  condition  to  take  care  of  itself. 

We  are  now  borne  down  by  taxes,  and  this  addition  will  be 
unsatisfactory. 

Very  respectfully  yours, 

(Signed.)  JOHN  B.  JERVIS. 

Mr.  Barclay,  before  leaving  last  evening,  sent  me  a  note  which 
I  wish  to  read  : 


LETTER  FROM  ALEXANDER  BARCLAY. 
Ed wd.  Crane,  Esq., 

Dear  Sir: — At  your  request  J  give  you  the  particulars  of  my 
experience  in  towing  a  fleet  of  boats  in  the  Erie  canal. 

In  1873,  about  December  20,  on  the  level  west  of  Schenectady, 
I  made  up  a  fleet  of  23  loaded  boats  in  one  line,  connected  by 
short  lines,  and  attached  to  them  three  steam  tugs  and  fifty- 
three  pairs  of  horses,  for  the  purpose  of  breaking  through  the 
packs  of  ice  which  accumulated  at  points  in  the  canal  and  ob* 
structed  navigation. 


34 


The  ice  was  a  foot  in  thickness,  and  had  been  broken  up  by 
the  ice-breakers. 

Whenever  we  approached  a  pack  of  ice  we  increased  our 
speed  from  two  to  three  miles  per  hour. 

At  all  times  boats  passed  around  the  curves,  and  some  of 
them  were  very  short  ones,  without  difficulty. 

They  followed  one  another  just  as  a  train  of  cars  does  on  a 
railroad.  The  teams  were  placed  off  the  forward  tugs,  and 
were  attached  to  it  by  a  heavy  line.  This  was  necessary  to 
keep  the  forward  tug  straight  in  the  canal,  as  it  would  sheer 
without  them  on  account  of  the  ice. 

The  boats  in  the  train  did  not  seem  to  require  much  steering. 
The  forward  boat  and  eight  or  nine  others  had  steersmen  on 
them.  In  a  fleet  of  live  boats  to  be  towed  by  a  locomotive,  I 
think  two  men,  one  each  on  the  forward  and  rear  boats,  would 
steer  them. 

In  the  experiment  of  towing  the  loaded  lumber  boats  between 
Troy  and  Albany,  by  the  steam  wagon,  when  they  were  going 
at  a  rate  of  3^  miles  an  hour,  I  took  particular  notice  of  the 
wave  and  it  was  not  more  than  from  4  to  6  inches. 

Boats  could  be  built  for  this  kind  of  towing  a  little  sharper 
in  the  bow ;  they  would  tow  easily,  and  in  that  case  I  think 
the  wave  would  not  be  higher  than  from  3  to  4  inches.  The 
water,  in  my  opinion,  can  be  raised  in  the  canals  6  inches  at  a 
very  small  expense,  and  this  would  be  a  great  advantage  in 
cheapening  transportation. 

I  very  much  fear  that  the  Canada  canal  system  will  work 
permanent  injury  to  the  city  and  State  of  New  York  unless 
we  can  increase  the  capacity  of  our  canal  and  cheapen  trans- 
portation charges  lower  than  by  any  other  route. 

Very  truly  yours, 

(Signed)  ALEXANDER  BARCLAY. 

March  19,  1879. 


M.  Allen  called  : 

Q.  Where  do  you  reside  ? 
*  A.  I  am  living  here  in  the  city  at  present,  at  Albany. 
Q.  What  is  your  occupation  ? 


35 


A.  Civil  and  mechanical  engineer. 

Q.  Yon  heard  the  statement  of  Mr.  Barclay,  yesterday,  with 
regard  to  locomotive  drawing  boats  ;  the  experiments  that  were 
made  % 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  yon  state  to  the  committee,  as  engineer,  as  to  the 
drawing  with  locomotive  referred  to  by  Mr.  Barclay  ;  and  also 
state  to  the  committee  whether,  in  your  judgment,  there  is  any 
impracticability  of  drawing  boats  with  locomotives,  in  the  fact 
of  It  being  diagonal  to  the  boat  ? 

A.  About  the  experiment  that  was  made  at  that  time,  the 
facts  are  the  same  as  stated  in  that  report,  or  substantially  the 
same  ;  and,  as-  far  as  the  practicability  of  towing  boats  by 
means  of  a  locomotive  on  a  track  on  the  towing  path,  I  don't 
see  any  difficulty  about  that.  The  only  objection  I  see  would 
be  the  side  draft  on  the  engine  ;  and,  as  far  as  that  is  concerned, 
it  can  be  easily  overcome,  by  elevating  the  inside  rail,  so  that 
the  weight  of  the  engine  would  overcome  the  side  draft.  Of 
course  the  rails  would  be  parallel  with  the  canal,  so  that  the 
engine  tips  very  little. 

Q.  From  the  canal  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  without  overcoming  the  side  draft,  if  placed 
level,  it  would  have  a  tendency  to  pull  the  wheels  against  the 
inside  rails  at  all  times. 

Q.  Have  you  any  question  as  to  the  feasibility  and  the  power 
of  the  locomotive  to  do  and  perform  what  is  claimed  for  it  in 
drawing  boats  % 

A.  No,  sir  ;  no  question  whatsoever. 

Q.  There  is  no  question  % 

A.  None  but  this  :  I  think  the  bows  of  the  boats  would  have 
to  be  modified  a  little  from  their  present  form  ;  they  would 
have  to  conform  more  nearly  to  what  is  called  the  sharp  bow 
boats  ;  originally  the  boats  of  the  canal  were  called  , 
or  something  of  that  kind  ;  then  they  were  changed  from  that, 
and  we  have  what  is  known,  in  the  scientific  way  of  speaking, 
the  course  of  quickest  descent,  or  the  course  upon  which  there 
would  be  the  least  friction  upon  the  water  passing  along  by 
that  course  of  quickest  descent  on  approaching  it,  something 
the  same  as  the  arc  through  which  the  pendulum  moves  by 
making  what  is  called  the  cycloid  arc  ;  in  making  the  body  of 
the  boat  conform  as  near  as  practicable  to  that,  you  get  the  least 


36 


friction  of  the  water,  and  consequently  there  is  less  danger  of 
having  your  wave  in  front  of  the  boat. 

Mr.  Siieakd. — Couldn't  you  change  that  arc,  or  would  you 
have  to  draw  an  angle  from  the  bow  \ 
A.  No  angle. 

Q.  Wouldn't  have  to  bend  it  so  much  as  that  \ 
A.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Hurd.  —  Are  you  a  practical  engineer? 
A.  I  am,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you-ever  had  any  experience  in  towing  boats  in  that 
way  ? 

A.  No  ;  I  can't  say  that  I  ever  had  ;  it  is  just  an  experiment ; 
all  the  experiments  I  ever  had  anything  to  do  with  is  the  one 
stated  in  that  report  appended  to  Mr.  Barclay's  report. 

Q.  Why  did  you  speak  about  that  side  draft  if  you  never 
had  any  experience  in  it  ? 

A.  That  reduces  itself  to  a  mathematical  problem,  as  well  as 
by  experiment. 

Q.  Then  you  don't  know  as  to  its  practicability — merely  as 
to  the  theory  as  an  engineer  ? 

A.  The  theory  would  be  this  :  The  same  idea  would  come  in 
that  we  have  in  keeping  an  engine  on  the  track  in  going  around 
a  curve ;  a  certain  force  acts  to  carry  it  off,  run  off  the  curve, 
and  another  force  would  have  to  overcome  that  by  elevating 
the  outer  rail ;  this  force  in  the  rear  would  act  in  an  inverted 
way,  but  it  would  be  about  the  same  thing. 

Q.  Suppose  an  evener  were  placed  on  the  end  of  the  engine, 
and  a  rope  attached  to  the  very  end  of  the  evener,  and  the  other 
end  fast  and  drawn  Irom  a  point  from  that  locomotive,  wouldn't 
you  get  a  direct  draft — wouldn't  an  evener  placed  on  the  end  of 
that  make  a  direct  draft  almost  % 

A.  You  couldn't  always  get  a  direct  draft  unless  your  evener 
reached  out  parallel  with  the  line  in  which  the  boat  was  trav- 
eling. 

Q.  Suppose  that  evener  were  at  the  further  boat  from  the 
locomotive,  how  much  could  you  reduce  that  side  draft  \ 
A.  Just  in  proportion  to  the  length  of  the  evener. 
Q.  Is  it  simply  a  mechanical  matter  % 
A.  Yes,  sir. 


37 


Q.  Simply  a  question  of  mechanical  skill  \ 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Crane  called  Mr.  Ames  of  Oswego  city. 

.  Mr.  Cheney  Ames  said :  I  shall  say  what  I  have  to  say  very 
briefly.  I  noticed  in  the  papers  that  yesterday  from  this  com- 
mittee came  a  report  equivalent  to  a  recommendation  of  an 
amendment  to  the  Constitution,  by  which  the  canal  tolls  could 
be  entirely  abrogated.  That  being  the  case,  who  then  has  got 
to  support  the  canals  ?  Is  it  those  who  use  them,  or  is  it  we 
who  build  them  %  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  the  citizens  of  the  State 
of  New  York  have  built  this  canal,  and  are  now  asked  by  for- 
eign States  to  maintain  this  bridge,  that  their  commerce  may 
pass  over  it  at  our  expense  Now  if  that  is  not  the  situation  of 
things,  then  I  have  not  comprehended  it. 

Now,  then,  if  we  have  got  to  be  the  carriers  of  the  commerce 
of  the  East  and  the  West,  and  from  Europe  to  the  Pacific,  let 
us  seek  the  cheapest  way  and  method  by  which  it  can  be  done. 

If  I  correctly  understand  this  bill,  gentlemen,  you  need  not 
amend  the  Constitution  to  get  a  cent  off  from  the  tolls  that  are 
now  charged  between  Buffalo  and  Albany.  The  difference  in 
the  towing  of  that  canal  boat  that  carries  8,000  bushels  from 
Buffalo  to  Albany  is  that  reduction  of  one  cent ;  but  if  you  wish 
to  do  still  more,  then  abrogate  the  tolls  upon  the  canals  and 
you  will  save  two  cents  a  bushel.  When  you  save  two  cents  a 
bushel  from  the  present  price  you  have  secured  thecomnerce 
of  the  East  and  the  West  to  the  canal  route.  The  railroads 
cannot  afford  it.  If  these  are  the  facts,  this  proposition  accom- 
plishes the  object. 

Suppose  3^011  recommend  an  amendment  of  the  Constitution, 
and  it  goes  to  the  people,  at  the  same  time  giving  the  bill  which 
Mr.  Crane  has  presented,  of  the  two  propositions  which  would 
they  take  ?  Will  they  take  an  abrogation  of  the  tolls  by  which 
they  are  to  be  burthened  with  the  maintenance  of  the  canals, 
or  will  they  take  the  bill  which  does  the  thing  without  any  ab- 
rogation of  the  tolls,  or  without  taxing  us  any  further  for  the 
support  of  commerce  % 

This,  gentlemen,  appears  to  me  so  simple  that  he  who  can  add 
two  and  two  can  understand  it. 

Again,  you  have  appointed  a  committee  to  go  over  the  State 
of  New  York  during  the  intervention  between  this  and  the  next 


0. 


38 


session  of  the  Legislature,  to  investigate  the  railroads,  and  to 
see  when,  where,  and  how  they  make  these  extraordinary 
charges  upon  local  freight  business  ;  it  costs  me  as  much  to 
send  a  barrel  of  my  flour  to  Boston  from  the  city  of  Oswego  as 
it  does  to  send  a  barrel  of  flour  from  Chicago  to  Liverpool. 
The  same  combination  that  carries  my  flour,  carries  that  to 
Liverpool. 

Now,  gentlemen,  where  is  the  justice  to  the  people  of  the 
State  of  New  York  in  this  transaction  \ 

I  have  known  that  the  Legislature  has  time  and  again  en- 
deavored to  pass  a  pro-rata  bill,  by  which  justice  should  be 
done  to  its  own  -citizens  who  have  granted  the  franchise  over 
which  the  western  travel  and  commerce  comes,  and  which  has 
made  the  western  prairies  the  value  they  are  to-day.  It  is  our 
railroads  and  our  canals  that  have  done  it.  Now,  gentlemen, 
pass  this  bill,  and  you  have  passed  the  pro-rata ;  you  have 
abolished  discrimination,  accomplished  the  object  desired, 
which  never  could  be  done  and  never  will  be  done  in  any  other 
way,  for  we  have  tried  it  year  after  year.  Pass  this  bill,  and 
pro-rata  is  a  fixed  fact.  Again,  at  the  close  of  the  season,  there 
is  a  great  accumulation  of  grain  in  the  warehouses  of  Buffalo 
and  Oswego,  which  must  go  forward,  and  when  the  canals  close 
there  is  no  longer  any  competition  to  railroads.  We  are 
charged  30  per  cent,  more  increase  in  freight  than  before.  Pass 
this  bill,  and  that  is  done  away. 

Now,  gentlemen,  if  this  bill  accomplish  pro-rata ;  if  this  bill 
evens  up  commerce,  as  is  proposed,  without  any  call  upon  the 
State  of  New  York  at  all,  or  without  any  call  upon  the  stock- 
holders beyond  those  that  are  willing  to  make  the  investment, 
why  is  it  not  wisdom  on  our  part  to  give  this  privilege  to  those 
who  are  willing  to  take  the  responsibility  upon  themselves,  and 
do  for  the  State  what  the  State  cannot  do  for  itself,  and  what 
it  has  tried  and  failed  to  do. 

These  propositions  appears  so  plain,  so  distinct,  so  com- 
plete in  themselves,  that  I  cannot  see  any  objection  to  allowing 
them.  You  are  right  in  your  theory  in  regard  to  some  points 
in  this  question.  How  is  it  to  be  done  \  That  I  am  not  going 
to  tell  you.  I  do  not  know  ;  I  only  know,  in  general  terms, 
that  those  who  have  studied  this  question,  and  studied  this 
matter,  look  upon  it  favorably.  I  am  now  told  that  all  difficul- 
ties are  so  removed  that  it  has  become  an  easy  matter. 


39 


Again,  this  is  an  age  of  improvement  ;  you  see  it  in  all  direc- 
tions and  on  every  hand.  Here  lies  your  old  canal,  with  very 
little  improvement  since  the  day  it  was  built,  except  that  it  has 
been  enlarged  in  its  capacity,  and  is  now  capable  of  doing- 
double  the  amount  of  work  it  was  then.  I  will  not  detain  you 
much  longer.  The  State  of  New  York,  the  United  States  of 
America,  are  ahead  of  the  world  in  all  the  advancements  that 
tend  to  the  improvement  in  science  and  mechanism,  and  every 
other  thing  that  tends  to  promote  the  happiness  of  man  and 
the  growth  and  prosperity  of  a  country.  That  honor  was  ac- 
corded us  in  the  Exhibitions  at  Philadelphia  and  in  France. 
Now  then  shall  we  sit  down  here  and  say  we  are  done,  and  that 
we  can  make  no  further  improvements  unless  we  tax  ourselves 
with  the  means  necessary  to  do  it.  If  the  science  and  improve- 
ment of  the  day  and  of  the  age  can  be  seized  upon  to  advance 
commerce,  to  improve  your  canals,  and  to  even  up  the  extortion 
of  railroads,  is  it  not  becoming  for  us  to  do  it?  I  should  like 
to  be  one  of  the  committee  to  make  a  report  in  favor  of  this 
great  advancement.  I  would  like  to  have  the  privilege  of  having 
some  hand  in  it  ;  for  it  does  seem  to  me  that  this  subject  is  of 
sufficient  importance  to  draw  the  attention  not  only  of  your 
honorable  selves,  but  of  the  large  community  which  is  inter- 
ested, and  which  has  been  interested,  and  who  are  ready  to 
stand  by  you  in  a  favorable  report  of  thie  matter.  I  say  it  was 
well  set  forth  by  Mr.  Crane  that  it  was  indispensable  that  we 
should  make  an  improvement  in  our  commercial  enterprises  in 
order  to  compete  with  and  secure  the  advantages  which  are 
going  to  the  North  and  to  the  South,  These  improvements 
are  going  on  and  constantly  moving.  I  have  here  (the  gentle- 
man here  referred  to  a  paper)  a  report  that  was  made  in  Canada 
last  month.  You  know,  sir,  that  perhaps,  in  view  of  the  fact 
that  we  abrogated  the  Reciprocity  Treaty  some  ten  or  fifteen 
years  ago,  that  the  Canadians  have  endeavored  to  retaliate  upon 
us  in  some  way.  Now,  they  have  put  a  tariff  upon  the  com- 
modities of  the  United  States,  and  they  have  also  made  a  favor- 
able report  for  the  making  of  a  canal  from  Georgian  Bay  to 
Toronto  and  Lake  Ontario,  in  which  it  is  set  forth  that  if  that 
improvement  is  made,  all  the  products  of  the  great  West,  as  far 
south  as  Chicago,  and  from  the  increased  trade  that  is  to  be 
piled  up  from  Duluth,  to  a  foreign  market  of  Great  Britain, 
will  go  through  Canada  at  $2.95  cheaper  than  the  cheapest  route 


40 


flow  known  to  navigation  can  transport  them.  Here  then  is  an 
opportunity  to  cheapen  navigation,  to  cheapen  the  great  pro- 
ducts of  the  West  to  the  consumers  East.  If  we  are  mistaken  in 
this,  then  we  should  expect  to  abide  by  your  decision  with  the 
grace  that  becomes  those  who  have  embraced] a  false  notion. 
But  we  would  be  exceedingly  glad  to  know  that  you  in  your 
wisdom  should  settle  the  question  in  regard  to  this  bill,  and  if 
you  do  not  feel  disposed  to  take  the  responsibility  of  recom- 
mending it  to  the  extent  that  we  would  do  if  we  had  the  report 
to  make  and  give  to  the  Legislature,  and  if  you  are  acting,  as 
you  are,  for  the  people  of  the  State  of  New  York,  you  will  find 
this  bill  would  meet  far  greater  favor  among  those  who  ha  re 
the  canal  to  support,  than  it  would  to  have  the  Constitution 
amended.  I  am  not  opposed  to  that ;  but  at  the  same  time 
why  are  we  burdening  ourselves  so  much  and  so  greatly  with 
the  millions  of  dollars  of  tax  that  comes  upon  us.  Who  is 
benefited  '{  Not  the  boatman,  for  he  has  been  five  years  trying 
to  live  by  his  boats  and  has  failed.  If  they  had  piled  them  up 
and  burned  them  they  would  have  made  money  by  it.  Who  is 
benefited  %  Why  then  should  we  be  so  anxious  to  burden  our- 
selves with  the  great  taxation  and  expenses  to  make  free  canal 
for  the  farmers  of  the  West  ? 

I  have  as  much  sympathy  for  the  poor  man  as  anybody.  This 
measure,  gentlemen,  now  under  consideration,  means  more  than 
we  have  expressed — more  than  any  measure  that  .1  know  of 
before  your  honorable  body. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — What  other  outlets  have  you  from  Os- 
wego ? 

Mr.  Ames.— None  but  the  railroad,  sir. 

Mr.  Sheard. — You  are  not  able  to  get  a  through  rate? 

Mr,  Ames. — I  might  say  here  that  when  this  canal  is  done 
from  Georgian  Bay  to  Toronto,  when  the  Welland  canal  is 
completed,  which  will  be  in  two  years,  when  the  largest  vessels 
will  come  down,  and  when  these  canals,  if  built,  will  bring  their 
produce  to  Lake  Ontario,  what  do  we  want  %  We  want  them  to 
take  the  property  and  carry  it  to  New  Yrork  as  cheap  as  they 
could  carry  it  to  Montreal.  Now  the  freight  from  Lake  Ontario 
to  Montreal  is  at  four  to  five  cents  a  bushel ;  from  Oswego  to 


41 


New  York  it  is  five  to  six  cents,  only  losing  about  one  and  one- 
half  cents  in  going  to  New  York  to  take  shipping  there.  That 
is  the  difference.  You  will  also  bear  in  mind  what  Mr.  Van- 
derbilt  is  doing.  He  is  now  making  contracts  in  the  West  for 
through  freights  to  Europe,  and  the  people  are  not  benefited  by 
it,  they  are  not  benefited  to  the  extent  of  one  cent.  They  get  a 
little  handling  perhaps  in  the  business,  but  the  canal  is  the 
regulator,  and  it  is  the  only  regulator,  and  when  this  railroad 
shall  be  built,  by  which  the  improvements  anticipated  and 
accepted  under  it  are  made,  we  then  can  compete. 

Mr.  Sheard. — What  effect  would  it  have  upon  the  grain  busi- 
ness to  Oswego  when  the  Welland  canal  is  in  force? 

•  Mr.  Ames. — With  the  tolls  off  the  canal  I  do  not  think  but 
what  the  main  trade  will  get  on  the  Erie  canal,  but  what  the 
effect  will  be,  is  yet  to  be  determined.  The  Welland  canal  will 
bring  the  largest  vessels  down  to  Lake  Ontario.  The  toll  from 
Buffalo  to  New  York  is  one  cent  and  three- tenths  ;  from  Os- 
wego to  New  York,  six-tenths,  a  little  less  or  about  one-half 
what  they  are  to  Buffalo  ;  if  they  can  bring  the  grain  down  to 
Oswego  for  three- fourths  of  a  cent  more  than  they  can  carry  it 
to  Buffalo,  Oswego  will  get  some  of  the  freight,  otherwise  not. 

The  Chairman. — Doesn't  it  cost  more  than  that  to  get  it 
from  Oswego  by  canal  to  Syracuse  ;  you  have  to  lock  up  all  the 
way  % 

Mr.  Ames. — There  is  a  heavy  rise. 

The  Chairman. — That  has  tended  to  make  that  route  rather 
unfavorable  for  carrying  the  produce  \ 

Mr.  Ames. — The  reduction  of  the  tolls  on  the  canals  has  done 
it.  In  1862  we  handled  as  much  grain  as  they  did  in  Buffalo, 
because  that  could  come  to  Oswego  by  Lake  Erie,  and  the  ad- 
vantages were  in  our  favor. 

Mr.  Sheard. — Do  I  understand  you  to  say  that  the  lowering 
of  the  tolls  is  prejudicial  to  the  interests  of  the  trade  at  Os- 
wego % 

Mr.  Ames. — Entirely,  sir,  commercially.    Had  the  Constitu. 


42 


tion  been  fulfilled  or  lived  up  to,  Oswego  would  have  had  a 
good  business  to-day. 

Mr.  Wadsworth. — What  do  you  regard  the  probability  of 
breaking  bulk  when  the  enlarged  canal  is  made  through  Wel- 
land,  in  Ontario,  is  it  a  probable  fact  that  a  larger  amount  of 
freight  does  go  direct  to  Liverpool,  making  their  partition  on 
the  lakes,  or  would  it  probably  be  at  Kingston  and  Oswego  'I 

Mr.  Ames.— Well,  sir,  my  impression  from  experience  is  that 
the  lake  vessels  cannot  profitably  navigate  the  ocean,  and  that 
the  ocean  vessels  cannot  navigate  the  lakes.  When  the  grain 
is  brought  direct  from  the  far  West,  it  is  brought  to  Kingston, 
there  transferred  to  large  barges  and  towed  to  Montreal,  and 
there  again  transferred  for  shipping.  The  first  and  original 
expenses  of  elevating  can  be  done  at  one-fourth  of  a  cent  a 
bushel,  and  the  advantages  arising  to  the  grain  in  being  handled 
and  aired  is  equivalent  to  that  expense.  The  elevators  can  be 
made  to  elevate  from  three  to  six  thousand  bushels  an  hour. 


Ex-State  Engineer  S.  H.  Sweet,  called  and  examined. 
Examined  by  Mr.  Crane  : 

I  will  ask  you  to  make  an  estimate  in  detail  from  your  own 
reports  of  your  own  knowledge  of  the  cost  of  canal  transporta- 
tion as  it  is  now  carried  on ;  also  what  the  cost  will  be  in  trans- 
porting under  the  improved  method  proposed.  Without  asking 
questions,  I  would  like  to  have  you  give  us  the  information  % 

A.  I  made  two  calculations,  one  for  mule  power  and  one  for 
towing  by  locomotive. 

Q.  Read  to  the  committee  what  you  have  % 

A.  The  first  method  is  for  mule  power.  (Witness  read  from 
paper.)  The  total  time  consumed  by  the  present  mode  of  tow- 
ing by  animal  power,  to  make  a  round  trip  from  Buffalo  to  New 
York  and  return,  (990  miles),  is  thirty  days,  or  seven  round 
trips  during  the  season  of  210  days.  The  speed  made  on  canal 
sections,  deducting  all  detentions,  is  as  follows  : 


43 


Total  time  round  trip   720  hours. 

Deduct : 

Detention  in  port,  6  days  144  hours. 

On  river,  4  days   96  " 

Lockages,  72,  at  30  minutes  both  ways  36  " 

  276 


Total  time,  uninterrupted  sections   440  hours. 


Making  speed  eastward,  1.31  miles  per  hour  267£  hours. 

And  making  speed  westward,  1.98  miles  per  hour. .  .176f  " 


.444  hours. 

COST  WITH  ANIMAL  POWER. 

.  Investment : 

Cost  of  boat   $4,000  00 

Cost  of  4  horses   500  00 

Cost  of  4  harnesses   60  00 


Total   $4,560  00 

Interest  on  investment  at  7  per  cent   319  20 

Reserve  fund  at  7  per  cent.,  to  replace  boat  in  10 

years   289  60 

Repairs  to  boat,  8  per  cent,  of  cost   320  00 

Insurance  on  boat   20  00 


$948  80 

Crew,  including  board  : 

One  captain,  $90  per  month  ,  7  months  $630  00 

One  steersman,  $20      "  "    140  00 

Two  drivers,  $20         "  "    168  00 

One  cook,  $10  u  "    70  00 

  1,008  00 

Keeping  and  shoeing  of  horses   900  00 

Reserve  fund  to  replace  horses  in  6  years   69  90 

River  and  harbor  towage,  $60  each,  x  7  trips   420  00 

Commissions,  $25  each,  x  7  trips     175  00 

Insurance  on  cargo,  $35  each,  x  7  trips   245  00 

Warfage  incidentals,  $7  each,  x  7  trips   49  00 


Total  cost  for  season   $3,815  70 


44 


Tons  transported  : 
Eastward,  230  x  7.  . 
Westward,  57^x7. 


1,610  tons. 
4024  " 


Cost  per  ton  moved,  Buffalo  to  New  York 


2, 012 J  tons. 
$1.89.6 


Cost  per  ton  per  mile 


3.83  mills. 
5.688  cents. 
0.50 


Cost  of  a  bushel  of  wheat 


Elevating  charges  in  New  York 


Trimming  cargo  per  bushel 


0.15 


Total  cost  per  bushel,  with  transhipments.. .  6.338  cents. 

COST  WITH  LOCOMOTIVE  POWER — ERIE  CANAL. 

By  proposed  method  of  locomotive  power,  on  a  basis  of  3 
miles  per  hour  between  the  locks  going  East,  and  4J  miles  per 
hour  going  West. 

When  the  locks  are  in  good  condition  and  boats  arriving  in 
trains,  they  can  be  passed  in  5  minutes  each,  or  25  minutes  per 
train  of  5  boats  each. 

Mr.  Sheard. — Let  me  call  your  attention  to  quite  a  discre- 
pancy in  figuring  the  time  of  running  a  boat  ;  you  figured  30 
minutes  for  lockage,  15  each  way — when  you  lock  by  locomotive 
it  only  takes  5. 

Witness. — A  boat  is  very  indifferent  about  getting  in  and 
out  of  a  lock  ;  they  sometimes  have  to  swell  them  out ;  there 
may  be  a  temporary  trouble  in  the  water. 

Q.  I  understand  the  difference  of  time  in  getting  in  and  out ; 
but  I  do  not  understand  why  it  is  necessary  to  estimate  15  in 
one  lockage  and  10  in  another. 

A.  That  is  about  what  they  average  in  a  season. 

Q.  Does  it  not  take  from  3  to  5  minutes  to  let  the  water  in  % 

A.  No,  sir  ;  in  1847  to  1850  experiments  were  made  where 
you  could  lock  them  in  4  minutes  ;  I  have  read  in  some  report 
the  time  occupied  in  doing  that  which  may  be  a  little  over  4 
minutes ;  that  is  by  experiment  on  a  lock  in  good  condition  ; 
we  did  it  as  rapidly  as  we  could. 

Q.  Does  it  consume  from  10  to  15  minutes  to  put  a  boat 
through  the  lock,  taking  everything  into  consideration,  the  con- 
dition of  the  locks,  the  scarcity  of  water,  etc. 


45 


A.  That  is  the  average,  from  10  to  15  minutes  ;  the  reason  I 
call  towing  by  train,  it  is  presumed  that  these  locks  will  be  put 
in  good  condition,  managed  in  a  little  different  way,  and  proba- 
bly be  of  more  benefit  to  parties  passing  boats. 
Q.  It  depends  upon  the  kind  of  a  lock-gate  you  have  % 
A.  Yes  ;  and  another  thing,  the  difference  in  lift  lock ;  some 
locks  have  a  3-foot  lift,  and  others  a  10-foot  lift ;  and  the  drop- 
gate  has  facilitated  the  lockage  very  much. 


The  Chairman. — There  is  no  guarantee  that  the  State  will 
perfect  that  lockage  in  the  case  of  towing  by  locomotive  power. 


Mr.  Crane. — In  the  State,  as  it  is  now,  it  is  no  particular  bus- 
iness of  anybody  ;  the  State  cares  nothing  about  it  ;  the  start- 
ing of  a  boat  out  of  the  lock  by  locomotive  power  will  do  it  in 
one-third  of  the  time  occupied  by  horses,  from  the  time  the  gate 
is  open  ;  that  is  the  expectation  ;  I  think  it  is  fair  to  put  it  as 
the  witness  has  put  it. 


Witness. — From  my  experience  I  know  the  boat  can  be 
locked,  when  the  lock  is  in  fair  working  condition,  and  the 
boatman  attentive  to  his  business,  there  is  no  trouble  in  pass- 
ing a  boat  in  5  minutes  ;  it  can  be  done  in  4  minutes. 

(Witness  continued  reading  from  paper  as  follows): 

The  time  consumed  in  making  a  round  trip  from  Buffalo  to 
New  York  and  return,  would  be  as  follows,  with  locomotive 
power : 

72  lockages  East  and  West,  50  minutes   60  hrs. 

700  miles  of  canal,  average  speed  3f-  miles  per  hour         187  ". 

4  days  in  port   96  u 

4  days  on  the  Hudson   96  " 


Total  hours   439  hrs. 

Say,  total  days,  18£,  or  \\\  trips  per  season  of  210  days. 


46 


COST  OF  TRANSPORTATION. 

Investment  same  as  boat  with  horse-power   $4,560  00 


Interest  on  investment,  renewal,  reserve  fund,  repairs 

and  insurance,  same  as  horse  towing   $948  80 

Same  crew  and  expense,  except  drivers   840  00 


Total   $1,788  80 

River  and  harbor  towage   $60  each  trip. 

Commissioners  __  25  M 

Insurance  cn  cargo . .   35  " 

Wharfage,  etc   7  " 


$127  by  1H  trips ....     1,439  00 
7,933  miles  at  10  cents  _       793  30 


Total  cost  per  season  by  locomotive   $4,021  10 

The  tonnage  transported  during  the  season  ( burthen  of  boats 
same  as  horse  boats  East  and  West )  as  follows  : 

230  tons  eastward  x  11 J  trips  2,606  tons. 

57£  tons  westward  x  11^  trips   651 


Total  tons  removed  3,257 

Cost  per  ton  moved  from  Buffalo  to  New  York,  495 

miles...   $1,234 

Cost  per  ton  per  mile..   2£  mills. 

Cost  per  bushel  wheat  moved  from  Buffalo  to  New 

York   #3.70  ^ 

Elevating  charges  in  New  York   •  50  * 

Trimming  cargo     •  1,5  » 


Total  cost  per  bushel  exclusive  of  tolls   ^4.35 

Thus  saving  2  cents  a  bushel  by  the  latter  method. 


TOWING  ENGINE. 


The  general  plan  of  engine  selected  as  the  best  for  towing  the 
boats  is  a  back  truck,  double  under  tank  locomotive,  weighing 


47 


39,000  lbs.— 35,000  lbs.  on  the  drivers,  with  cylinders  12  by  18 
inches,  and  3  feet  to  40  inches  diameter  of  driving-wheels.  Its 
performance  of  duty  is  guaranteed  as  follows,  viz. : 

Its  tractive  power  is  8,000  lbs.,  and  will  haul  on  a  level  800 
tons,  and  up  a  grade  of  40  feet  260  tons,  and  up  a  grade  of  100 
feet  115  tons. 

The  traction  by  formula  (that  generally  used)  is  (125  x  128  x 
18)  8,100  lbs.,  being  about  the  same  as  that  guaranteed  by  the 
manufacturers.  "In  the  above  the  effective  pressure  of  steam  on 
the  cylinder  is  taken  at  125  lbs.  per  square  inch,  diameter  of 
driving  wheels  at  40  inches. 

The  box  cars  on  a  three-foot  gauge  road  generally  weigh  about 
.    six  tons,  and  will  carry  ten  tons  of  freight,  making  with  car  and 
load  16  tons. 

Therefore  an  engine  of  the  above  power  will  haul  on  a  level  50 
loaded  cars,  or  500  net  tons. 

To  haul  the  contents  of  the  five^loaded  boats,  1,200  tons,  over 
the  level  road,  would  require,  with  this  power  of  locomotion, 
2yV  trains,  as  the  weight  of  the  cars  and  load  would  be  1,920 
tons. 

Many  of  the  narrow  gauge  engines  will  haul  11  tons  up  a 
grade  of  340  feet  per  mile.  One  engine  working  upon  the  Min- 
eral Range  railroad  hauls  62|  tons  over  a  grade  of  211  feet  per 
mile.  This  engine  weighs  20  tons.  The  following  shows  the 
capacity  of  narrow  gauge  engines  : 

Will  haul  26  tons  over  193  feet  grade. 
a      u     21    <(      ii    247    <l  u 
"     "    15    "     "    265    "  " 
#     <*     "      6    "     "    385    "  " 

The  cost  of  running  a  locomotive  of  power  to  draw  five  boats 
at  a  speed  of  three  miles  an  hour,  including  repairs  of  track, 
would  be  about  $16  to  $18  per  day,  or  from  5^  to  6  cents  per 
mile  per  boat. 

The  lowest  cost  of  towing  by  present  method  is  20  to  25  cents 
per  mile,  which,  at  20  cents  upon  the  mileage  of  one  round  trip, 
amounts  to  $140. 


48 


If  (owed  by  locomotive  power  at  the  price  of  10  cents  per  mile, 
the  cost  per  round  trip  (700)  miles  would  be  $70. 

Saving  in  towing  one  trip   $70  00 

"      "        7      "    490  00 

U      "      11      "    ...    770  00 

By  making  11  trips  per  season  with  locomotive  power  instead 
of  7  by  animal  power,  the  carrying  capacity  of  the  canal  will  be 
increased  7  to  11. 

In  towing  boats  through  the  canal  single,  at  a  speed  of  three 
miles  an  hour,  the  resistance  is  equal  to  4  lbs.  per  ton  of  freight, 
and  at  two  miles  an  hour,  about  ^  lb.  Upon  a  3-foot  gauge 
railroad  the  resistance,  at  a  speed  of  eight  to  ten  miles  an  hour, 
is  equal  to  from  10  to  15  lbs.  per  ton  of  freight ;  deducting  fric- 
tion of  the  locomotive  and  loss  by  angle  of  the  towing  line,  and 
it  leaves  an  available  traction  power  of  about  7,600  lbs.,  and,  as 
the  average  force  exerted  by  the  horse  towing  does  not  exceed 
160  lbs.,  the  above  locomotive  represents  the  towing  power  of 
about  46  horses  going  at  a  speed  of  two  miles  an  hour. 

The  resistance  (maximum)  towing  a  loaded  boat  at  two  miles 
an  hour,  is  430  lbs.,  hence  at  this  speed  a  locomotive  will  tow 
about  17  boats  loaded. 

The  resistance  to  a  single  boat  at  the  speed  of  three  miles  an 
hour  is  1,060  lbs.,  hence  at  this  speed  a  locomotive  will  tow,  say 
7  loaded  boats. 

The  dead  weight  of  cars  on  a  narrow  gauge  (maximum),  to 
paying  freight  is  as  6  to  10.  The  weight  of  a  boat  is  63  to  65 
tons,  therefore  the  dead  weight  of  transportation  by  boat  is  1  to 
3£  tons  of  freight.  About  20  per  cent,  of  the  resistance  is  saved 
in  towing  boats  in  trains  of  say  5  boats  each. 

Total  maximum  resistance  towing  5  single  boats  at  a  speed  bf 
3  miles  an  hour  is  equal  to  5,300  lbs.,  same  in  train,  say  4,200 
lbs. 

Q.  In  this  computation  you  estimate  the  cost  per  ton  from 
Buffalo  to  New  York,  at  $1.90  by  animal  power  % 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  $1.23  by  locomotives  % 
A.  Yes,  sir. 


49 


Q.  That  is,  you  estimate  they  will  go,  on  an  average,  343¥  miles 
an  hour? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  have  been  acquainted  with  canals  as  engineer  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  I  have  a  recollection  of  some  report  which  Mr. 
Fay  made  upon  this  same  subject,  or  a  similar  matter  with  re- 
gard to  the  introduction  of  an  improved  system  of  towage,  and 
he  was  in  favor  of  some  improved  system,  and  he  gave  as  his 
judgment  that  it  would  b^of  advantage. 

Q.  That  it  would  be  expedient  to  tow  faster  than  two  and  a 
half  miles  an  hour  ? 

A.  That  depends  upon  the  method.  If  we  employ  the  auto- 
matic power,  the  screw  propeller,  you  lose  from  forty  to  sixt}^ 
per  cent,  by  the  screw  ;  but  by  towing  by  adhesion  you  gain 
all  that. 

Q.  Would  not  the  depression  at  the  bow  be  less  when  the 
power  is  in  the  stern  than  it  would  be  by  adhesion  ? 

A.  I  think  it  would ;  but  if  you  will  take  occasion  to  look 
over  the  report  of  the  commission  during  the  Baxter  experi- 
ments, you  will  find  loaded  boats  of  200  tons  made  three  and 
four  miles  an  hour  during  the  experiments,  and  very  generally 
three  and  eighty -five  hundredths  miles  an  hour.  I  do  not  know 
of  any  experiments  myself,  but  I  learned  of  those  who  had 
made  experiments  when  I  first  came  on  the  canal,  that  by  a 
speed  of  six  to  seven  miles  an  hour  a  large  swell  is  created  and 
carried  along  at  the  bow.  * 

Q.  In  towing  a  boat  at  moderate  speed,  when  you  accelerate 
that  motion,  the  water  tends  to  push  forward,  doesn't  it  ? 

A.  There  is  just  where  I  would  like  to  say  that  it  don't  seem 
to  amount  to  a  great  deal  until  you  get  up  a  speed  of  six  miles 
an  hour,  then  the  swell  seems  to  rise  in  front  and  is  carried  along 
with  the  boat,  and  is  a  great  drag  on  the  boat. 

Q.  It  increases  by  increments,  but  you  cannot  fix  any  arbi- 
trary points  at  which  it  commences? 

A.  I  tliink  it  is  about  six  miles  an  hour  when  they  get  that 
momentum. 

Q.  Would  not  the  tendency  be  to  displace  that  water  ;  a  boat 
drawing  a  certain  depth  of  water  would  then  come  near  the  bot- 
tom ;  wouldn't  that  be  the  tendency  ? 

A.  No  ;  the  tendency  is  to  recover  the  displacement,  and  the 
velocity  in  overcoming  this  displacement  produces,  a  current  in 


50 


the  rear  of  the  boat,  and  assists  the  boat  in  tow  to  pass  easily  ; 
it  leaves  no  depression  for  the  pulling  boat  to  encounter. 

Q.  You,  say  you  have  a  tow  of  five  boats  loaded,  they  load 
them  down  to  within  about  six  inches  from  the  bottom  of  the 
canal ;  you  pass  along  at  the  rate  of  four  miles  an  hour,  and  to 
a  certain  extent  the  water  is  displaced  and  the  first  boat  passes  ; 
now  comes  your  next  boat ;  you  do  not  suppose  all  the  water 
displaced  has  suddenly  got  back  into  the  vacuum  of  that  first 
boat  1  • 

A.  It  has  not  completely,  perhaps. 

Q.  Then  the  depth  of  the  water  is  not  as  great  as  it  was  %  now 
we  come  to  the  3d,  4th  and  5th  boat — do  you  think  there  would 
be  seven  feet  of  water  for  the  fifth  boat  to  travel  in  % 

A.  I  don't  know  that  there  would  be  two  inches  difference  ; 
it  is  the  counter-current  that  runs  in  to  fill  the  displacement  in 
the  rear  of  the  boat  and  does  fully  recover  its  level  within  per- 
haps three  feet  of  the  stern  of  the  boat ;  that  is  at  the  rate  of 
three  and  one-half  miles  an  hour. 

(j.  At  what  rate  of  speed  is  it  safe  to  pass  tows  % 

A.  About  two  and  one- half  miles  an  hour  ;  I  don't  know  but 
three  miles  an  hour  they  could  pass. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — Q.  Speaking  of  this  vacuum  and  dis- 
placing of  water,  would  not  five  boats  being  iii  such  close  con- 
nection have  a  tendency  to  raise  the  depth  of  the  water  in  the 
immediate  neighborhood  of  these  boats  as  much  as  the  vacuum 
would  cause  it  to  recede  %  Take,  for  an  instance,  a  bowl  of 
water,  and*drop  an  egg  in  ;  that  raises  the  level  of  the  water ; 
so  as  regards  these  boats  being  close  together,  would  not  a  dis- 
placement of  the  water  by  the  bodies  of  the  boats  contract  the 
vacuum  principle  which  our  Chairman  has  explained  ? 

A.  It  seems  to  restore  itself  almost  completely  within  a  few 
feet ;  if  the  boats  were  about  within  5  feet  of  each  other,  almost 
completely,  that  is  from  experiment ;  from  theory  it  is  a  very 
easy  thing  to  calculate  ;  in  practice  it  seems  to  restore  itself  by 
a  counter-  current  in  the  rear. 

Q.  If  the  level  was  just  as  long  as  a  boat,  if  it  measured  6£ 
feet  of  water  without  a  boat  in  and  you  let  a  boat  in. 

A.  You  raise  it  in  the  amount  of  the  displacement ;  it  has  no 
bearing  in  a  case  like  this,  for  it  escapes  along  the  sides  of  the 
boat  ;  you  are  speaking  of  a  confined  bowl ;  with  the  boat  it 
escapes  by  a  current  along  the  sides  and  under  the  boat,  fills 


51 


and  follows  up  in  the  rear  ;  it  has  no  such  relation  at  all  as  in 
the  bowl.  The  greatest  depression  is  at  the  centre  of  the  boat, 
and  not  at  the  rear,  as  generally  supposed. 

By  the  Chairman. — Q.  In  moving  a  train  of  boats  in  that 
way,  the  water  passes  along  the  sides  and  returns  in  the  wake 
of  the  boat  in  time  for  the  next  boat  % 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  that  is  the  law  and  the  result  of  experiment  \ 

Q.  What  is  the  width  of  the  prism  % 

A.  It  is  70  feet  on  the  surface. 

Q.  What  is  the  maximum  width  of  a  canal  boat  \ 

A.  About  17J  feet. 

Q.  You  say  boats  could  pass  about  three  miles  an  hour  ? 

A.  I  presume  they  might,  perhaps  two  and  a  half  an  hour  ;  I 
don' t  know  but  they  could  three. 

Q.  For  instance,  if  they  were  passing  each  other  at  that  rate 
of  speed,  we  have  taken  up  in  the  boat  35  feet,  the  canal  at  the 
bottom  of  the  prism  is  only  56  feet — you  only  have  that  for  the 
water  to  pass  back — do  you  think  it  would  be  practicable  to 
pass  two  boats  at  that  speed — would  they  not  drag  on  the 
ground  ? 

A.  No,  sir  ;  I  don't  think  it  would  make  a  difference  of  over 
three  inches  in  the  reduction  of  the  water  in  passing  at  the  rate 
of  two  and  a  half  miles  an  hour. 

Q.  In  passing  two  fleets  of  boats,  five  in  a  fleet,  at  the  rate  of 
three  miles  an  hour,  there  would  not  be  more  than  three  inches 
difference  in  the  height  of  the  water  between  the  frcmt  boat  and 
the  rear  \ 

A.  I  don't  think  there  would  ;  I  have  never  figured  upon  it ; 
I  judge  from  experiments  ;  it  is  a  matter  of  judgment. 
Q.  What  division  were  you  on  % 

A.  I  was  located  on  the  middle  division  for  two  years  as  resi- 
dent engineer. 

Q.  Don't  they  have  considerable  trouble  on  the  Rome  levels 
in  dry  time  \ 

A.  The  principal  trouble  has  been  on  this  level ;  there  is 
ample  supply  if  the  water  could  be  evenly  distributed,  but  the 
winds  drive  it  back  east,  and  to  counteract  it  we  constructed  a 
reservoir  to  restore  west  end  in  the  case  of  winds  ;  at  constant 
high  winds  I  found  at  Syracuse  it  would  lower  the  Syracuse 
end  sometimes  six  inches  and  pile  it  up  toward  the  west  end  of 
the  level. 


f)2 


Q.  Did  they  have  trouble  with  the  Montezuma  level  ? 

A.  No  ;  along  the  Jordan  there  is  a  place  where  they  are  de- 
ficient, but  they  are  not  troubled  as  much  as  long  level. 

Q.  Sometimes  on  the  eastern  end  of  the  long  level  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir;  the  reservoir  has  been  constructed  on  the  east 
end  for  the  purpose  of  overcoming  that  depression  there. 

Q.  So  that  probably  in  three  months  of  the  year  you  would 
not  have  more  than  six  feet  of  water  ? 

A.  The  greatest  depression  was  si£  inches  that  I  ever  found, 
that"  was  before  the  reservoir  was  constructed,  but  now  I  do  not 
think  they  are  troubled  over  2  or  3  inches  ? 

Q.  Is  not  the  maximum  capacity  of  the  prism  of  the  canal 
boats  of  240  tons — that  is  to  say,  in  the  present  form  of  con- 
struction of  boats,  that  is  all  the  boats  will  take  ? 

A.  Yes  ;  that  is  forcing  the  prism,  too. 

Q.  That  is  taking  into  connection  the  7  feet  of  water — you 
say  in  three  months  of  the  season  you  have  no  more  than  6  feet 
of  water,  in  your  estimate  there  you  can  carry  this  produce  to 
New  York  for  $1.23,  but  you  have  estimated  a  cargo  of  240 
tons  a  season  ? 

A.  Two  hundred  and  thirty,  I  call  it. 

Q.  Could  you  carry  230  a  season  ? 

A.  Not  at  any  time  was  the  depression  over  six  inches,  but 
that  occurred  on  the  east  end  of  the  long  level ;  that  was  before 
the  construction  of  the  reservoir  ;  they  had  an  abundance  of 
water  if  it^could  be  distributed,  but  the  winds  held  it  back  so 
that  sometimes  it  would  be  six  inches  below. 

Q.  On  the  Home  level,  one  season  and  another,  for  two  or 
three  months  of  the  year,  they  don't  have  6  feet  ? 

A.  I  do  not  think  it  has  ever  been  less  than  six  and  one-half  ; 
we  get  our  full  seven  feet  about  all  the  time. 

Q.  On  these  disadvantages  you  figured  the  same  average  for 
the  mule  as  steam  power,  didn' t  you  ? 

A.  I  used  the  same  condition. 

Q.  You  did  not  make  any  allowance  for  this  on  either  of 
them  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  They  are  all  figured  on  the  same  basis  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So  that  when  one  is  susceptible  of  reduction  the  other  is, 
also  ? 


53 


A.  Yes,  sir  ;  it  would  answer  the  same  for  both  systems. 
Q.  So  that  in  some  instances  it  does  trouble  even  the  feeders 
on  the  canal  % 
A.  We  have  not  been  of  late. 

Q.  In  summer,  when  the  water  is  low  and  you  need  all  the 
surplus  you  can  get  at  Little  Falls,  when  the  wind  blows  east 
to  west,  you  don't  get  as  much  as  when  it  blows  from  west  to 
east — the  difficulties  are  the  same  in  both  instances  % 

A.  Yes,  sir.  • 

Q.  When  did  you  have  charge  of  the  middle  division  % 
A.  In  1859  and  1860. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — Q.  Have  you  ever  had  practical  experience 
in  towing  by  steam  locomotive  power  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  merely  testify  to-day  as  an  amateur,  not  an  expert  \ 

A.  As  an  amateur,  yes  ;  I  have  calculated,  of  course,  the 
practicability  of  power  and  the  method  of  towing,  it  is  entirely 
satisfactory  to  me.  . 

Q.  Is  your  home  at  Albany,  here  % 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — Q.  Is  this  system  of  towing  by  locomotives 
in  active  operation  anywhere  that  you  know  of  % 

A.  I  am  under  the  impression  it  is,  on  one  of  the  canals  of 
Pennsylvania  to  a  certain  extent ;  I  do  not  know  which  canal. 

Q.  You  do  not  know,  then  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  Is  there  any  in  any  other  country  you  know  of? 

A.  I  think  there  is  a  canal  in  France  ;  I  cannot  give  any  in- 
formation about  it. 

Q.  You  have  no  practical  knowledge  or  information  as  to  the 
practicability  of  the  affair,  only  what  you  gained  from  your 
knowledge  as  engineer  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  That  you  have  reduced  and  obtained  from  mathematics  % 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Mr.  Crane. — Q.  Did  you  say  it  made  a  saving  of  two  cents 
a  bushel  % 

A.  Two  cents  on  a  bushel  of^ wheat. 

Q,  A  boat  will  transport,  under  this  system  two  cents  less  on 


54 

a  bushel  of  wheat  or  corn  from  Buffalo  to  New  York,  and  make 
as  much  money  as  at  the  present  system  \ 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  saving  somebody,  either  the  boatman  or  the  pub- 
lic, two  cents  a  bushel '{ 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  seen  a  locomotive  drawing  the  cars  from 
the  St.  John's  Park,  New  York,  to  the  up-town  station,  in  the 
upper  end  of  the  Island? 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  often. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  seen  horses  on  the  Harlem  R.  R.  drawing 
from  Canal  street  up-town  ? 
A.  Yes. 

Q.  How  many  horses  does  it  take  to  draw  cars  loaded  with 
ten  tons  ? 

A.  Don't  know  ;  I  should  judge  four  horses  are  used. 

Q.  Four  horses  it  takes  to  move  and  start  a  ten-ton  car  ;  have 
you  seen  a  locomotive  take  twenty  cars  and  start  them  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  the  power  of  the  engine  proposed  for  towing 
boats  is  equal  to  46  horses  at  three  miles  an  hour,  at  160  pounds 
for  a  horse ;  on  the  average  the  canal  engine  proposed  is  equal 
to  forty  horses. 

Q.  Put  eighty  horses  to  the  boat  in  one  direction  and  the  lo- 
comotive in^the  other  direction,  in  your  judgment,  will  the  loco- 
motive take  the  boat  and  drag  it  astern  ? 

A.  At  forty  horses  the  locomotive  will  hold  them. 

By  Mr.  Crane. — Q.  My  experience  is  that  one  concentrated 
force  will  equal  eighty  horses,  inasmuch  as  you  cannot  get  the 
horses  to  act  in  concert  ? 

A.  That  would  depend  upon  the  power  of  the  locomotive. 

By  the  Chairman. — Q.  Would  there  be  any  question  about 
the  expediency  of  moving  at  four  miles  an  hour  in  the  frequent 
stoppages  you  have  to  make  ? 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Sailing  down  the  canal  at  four  miles  an  hour  with  live 
boats,  each  boat  loaded  with  240  tons  and  a  lock  near,  can  you 
stop  conveniently  as  you  choose  ? 

A.  Yes,  no  trouble  about  that. 

Mr.  Crane. — There  are  many  ways  of  doing  it  if  desirable  ; 


65 


and  if  the  locks  are  so  near  together,  and  we  get  to  a  gate  and 
stop,  it  will  regulate  itself  ;  you  can  do  what  you  desire  with  a 
locomotive. 

Witness. — Of  course  the  engine  can  be  reversed  rapidly. 

By  the  Chairman. — Q.  What  good  would  that  do  I 
A.  Check  the  momentum  of  the  boat,  take  the  line  oif  the 
front,  and  pass  it  back  and  attach  it  to  the  centre  of  the  train. 

Mr.  Crane. — Let  the  line  remain  in  the  end  where  it  is,  the 
reversing  of  that  engine  will  bring  it  to  a  dead  centre,  which 
you  can't  do  with  horses  ;  there  is  no  way  in  the  world  you  can 
handle  a  power  you  are  moving  as  easily  as  by  a  simple  con- 
trivance in  a  locomotive.  It  would  not  be  safe  to  put  five  boats 
with  a  stiff  connection  between  them  ;  the  only  way  is  to  have  a 
flexible  connection  between  those  boats  ;  you  can't  do  it  any 
other  way.  It  requires  a  good  deal  of  skill  to  put  these  boats 
together,  so  you  can  couple  them  quick.  It  is  very  desirable 
to  have  these  boats  when  coupled,  so  that  it  is  a  flexible  con- 
nection, and  to  find  out  the  right  bend  and  make  that  connec- 
tion. 

By  the  Chairman.— Q.  Do  you  think  there  would  be  any 
serious  difficulty  in  building  these  tracks  through  cities  where 
the  buildings  are  close  to  the  canal  % 

A.  I  think  in  cities  like  Utica,  Syracuse  and  Rochester,  the 
berme  track  could  be  carried  to  the  towing-path  side  of  the 
canal,  and  the  present  shipping  facilities  saved  to  those  cities. 
Or  you  could  extend  a  row  of  pilings  inside  of  a  vertical  wall 
without  checking  the  water — small  iron  columns  ;  it  could  be 
done  in  that  way. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — Q.  Are  you  an  incorporator  i 
A.  I  think  I  am  ;  I  was  a  year  ago. 
Q.  Are  you  a  stockholder  ? 
A.  I  think  I  own  a  share  of  it. 

By  the  Chairman.— Q.  Did  you  subscribe  for  any  stock  I 
A.  A  share,  I  think. 

Mr.  Crane. — The  board  has  not  been  changed  since  it  was 
created  a  year  ago. 


56 


Henry  S.  Wells,  called  and  testified  as  follows  : 

Q.  Where  do  you  reside  ? 
A.  In  the  city  of  New  York. 

Q.  What  experience  have  you  had,  if  any,  in  railroading  for 
the  last  30  years,  and  other  public  works  ? 

A.  I  have  been  steadily  engaged  since  1847  in  the  construction 
of  public  works,  many  of  the  important  lines  of  the  country  ; 
the  New  York  &  Erie,  the  Buffalo  and  State  Line,  the  Client 
Western  of  Canada,  the  Delaware,  Lackawanna  &  Western, 
the  Lackawanna  &  Bloomsburgh  in  Pennsylvania,  the  Warren 
R.  R.  of  New  Jersey,  the  Great  Western  of  Canada,  a  portion 
of  the  direct  road  between  Syracuse  and  Rochester,  and  a  road 
in  Georgia  ;  I  have  been  engaged  in  the  construction  of  canals, 
and  am  one  of  the  parties  that  bought  of  Pennsylvania  the 
North-Branch  canal  and  operated  that  for  a  number  of  years  ; 
but  that  is  now  turned  into  a  railroad  ;  have  been  engaged  in 
building  the  great  ship  canal  at  Lake  Superior,  and  the  entire 
construction  of  the  water-works  of  the  city  of  Brooklyn. 

Q.  The  entire  construction  of  the  Brooklyn  Water  Works  I 

A.  Yes  ;  a  contract  of  $5,000,000  successfully  performed,  and 
many  other  works. 

Q.  Have  you  had  occasion  to  inform  yourself  with  regard  to 
this  system  of  towing  boats  with  this  locomotive  power,  and  if 
so,  how  long  since  your  attention  was  called  to  it,  and  what  are 
the  results  of  your  examinations  \ 

A.  About  three  months  ago  my  attention  was  first  called  to 
it,  and  my  opinion  asked  by  a  party  in  New  York,  who  is  inter- 
ested in  the  commercial  exchange  ;  a  pamphlet  was  given  me, 
and  I  was  asked  my  opinion  upon  the  feasibility  of  drawing 
boats  by  locomotive,  and  the  practicability  of  the  whole  sys- 
tem ;  I  told  him  I  would  look  into  it  and  examine  the  pamphlet 
and  the  whole  plan  ;  I  determined  that  it  was  the  project  that 
Mr.  Jarvis  had  laid  down  in  his  report,  and  was  perfectly 
feasible  and  practicable,  and  from  that  time  I  have  looked  into 
it  with  great  care  ;  I  think  that  is  the  proper  way  to  increase 
the  capacity  of  the  canal  and  make  it  valuable  both  for  economy 
in  the  towing  of  boats,  and  beneficial  to  the  boatmen  and  the 
State,  and  above  all  things,  checking  the  great  monopolies  that 
are  controlling  the  prices  of  freight  both  East  and  West.  The 
power  that  is  growing  up  and  has  got  to  its  growth  now,  by 
these  great  corporations  that  have  been  brought  into  existence 


57 


by  the  act  of  the  States,  so  concentrated  that  their  powers  are 
almost  irresistible  ;  I  see  no  other  power  that  can  check  them 
except  the  power  of  the  State  of  New  York,  through  its  great 
natural  facilities.  That  the  State  of  New  York  can  do  with 
great  benefit  to  herself,  the  West,  the  Eastern  States,  and  to  the 
whole  world,  because  you  may  say  a  great  part  of  Europe  is 
dependent  upon  us,  not  only  lor  grain,  but  for  cattle  ;  and  the 
prosperity  of  the  West  is  to  be  benefited  by  a  cheaper  method 
of  transportation. 

Q.  How  did  this  canal  in  Pennsylvania  come  to  be  turned  into 
a  railroad  ? 

A.  We  purchased  the  north  branch  of  the  Pennsylvania 
Canal,  and  the  State  of  New  York  were  under  a  contract  with 
the  State  of  Pennsylvania,  to  keep  up  a  dam  at  the  State  Line, 
and  connected  the  north  branch  of  the  Pennsylvania  Canal  up 
the  Susquehanna,  with  the  Chemung  Canal  at  Elmira  ;  the  State 
of  New  York  refused  to  carry  out  that  contract,  and  the  conse- 
quence was,  it  made  a  break  there  of  17  miles  that  made  the 
canal  substantially  useless  ;  and  the  canal  was  sold  by  consent 
of  the  State  of  Pennsylvania  to  the  Lehigh  Valley  R.  R.  Co., 
and  they  availed  themselves  of  it. 

Q.  Did  the}7  make  provisions  in  the  sale  that  they  should 
maintain  the  canal  \ 

A.  They  bought  the  controlling  interests  of  the  stock  of  the 
canal. 

Q.  Was  it  a  corporation  ( 

A.  The  State  sold  it  to  a  corporation,  but  then  gave  permis- 
sion to  change  it  from  a  canal  to  a  railroad. 

Q.  Have  you  had  any  practical  experience  in  towing  by  steam  * 
power  \ 

A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Never  saw  it  done  ? 
A.  Never  saw  it  done. 

Q.  Do  you  know  any  place  where  it  is  now  in  actual  opera- 
tion ? 
A.  I  do  not. 

Q,  Never  heard  of  any  \ 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Practically  you  do  not  know  anything  about  its  results  \ 
A.  I  never  saw  it  done  ;  I  have  no  more  doubt  of  the  possi- 
bility of  doing  it  than  I  have  of  walking  to  the  hotel. 


58 


Q.Tractically  you  know  nothing  about  it  ? 
A.  I  say  I  have  never  seen  it  done  ;  but  I  know  it  can  be 
done. 

i  Q.  You  know  what  I  mean  by  practical  experience  ? 
A.  I  have  seen  cars  hauled  by  locomotives. 
Q.  Have  you  ever  seen  this  system  tried  ? 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  have  not  any  practical  knowledge  about  it  ? 
A.  I  have  no  practical  knowledge  of  drawing  canal  boats  by 
locomotives. 

By  the  Chairman. — Q.  You  are  a  contractor  ? 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Mr.  Crane. — Q.  You  have  no  question  in  your  own  mind 
but  that  a  locomotive  of  forty-horse  power,  three  driving-wheels, 
on  the  banks  of  a  canal,  with  a  tow-line,  has  the  power  of  mov- 
ing a  train  of  five  boats  as  fast  as  it  is  safe  to  go  through  that 
canal  ? 

A.  I  have  not  the  slightest  doubt  of  it. 

D.  E.  Culver,  civil  engineer,  being  called,  testified  as  fol- 
lows : 

Examined  by  Mr.  Crane  : 

Q.  Have  you  knowledge,  if  so,  what,  of  the  character  of  the 
country  on  the  west  bank  of  the  Hudson  River  from  Albany  to 
New  York,  as  regards  the  building  of  a  line  of  railroad  over 
that  section  ? 

A. .  I'm  well  acquainted  with  that  country;  I  have  walked 
over  it  twice. 

Q.  State  to  the  committee  the  feasibility  of  that  shore,  with 
regard  to  the  construction  of  a  railroad  from  Albany  to  New 
York  % 

A.  I  consider  it  very  feasible. 

Q.  In  your  judgment;  would  $10,000,000  build  a  double  track 
railroad  from  Bergen  Ridge  to  Albany  % 

A.  I  believe  it  would  do  it  ;  it  would  cover  it ;  I  should  be 
willing  to  take  the  contract. 

Q.  Is  there  a  population  on  that  side  of  the  river  that  would 
be  benefited  by  that  improvement  ? 


59 


A.  I  consider  it  would  be  a  benefit  for  personal  convenience 
and  the  profit  of  trade,  and  by  affording  the  facilities  they  do 
not  now  have  to  business  men  and  residents  of  that  section  of 
the  State  of  New  York. 

Q.  Have  you  had  occasion  to  come  in  contact  upon  this  side 
with  people  living  upon  that  line  % 

A.  I  think  the  people  on  the  west  shore  are  in  favor  of  the 
construction  of  such  a  line,  and  desire  it  very  much. 

Q.  You  have  heard  the  evidence  % 

A.  Yes,  sir.  . 

Q.  Have  you  any  question  but  what  a  locomotive  placed  upon 
the  banks  of  the  canal  is  a  practical  working  machine,  and  can 
be  made  to  do  what  it  purports  to  do,  in  drawing  boats  by  loco- 
motives \ 

A.  I  have  no  doubt  of  its  entire  feasibility,  andj  the  plan,  if 
carried  out,  will  prove  to  be  successful.  I  have  no  doubt  but 
what  it  will  be  perfectly  successful.  Mr.  Jar  vis  is  a  perfectly 
safe  man,  and  fully  understands  all  the  questions  in  the  case. 
I  think  any  man,  any  engineer,  would  say  that  Mr.  Jarvis  is  a 
perfectly  safe  man  to  follow,  one  of  ripe  experience,  and  who 
understands  all  the  questions  that  are  to  be  taken  into  consid- 
eration and  determined  in  a  matter  of  this  kind.  I  have  seen 
the  system  of  towing  byjlocomotives  on  a  canal  tried  and  proved 
to  be  effective. 

Q.  You  have  % 

A.  Yes,  sir,  that  is  I  have  seen  it  tried  in  my  own  State,  the 
State  of  New  Jersey,  on  the  Delaware  and  Raritan  canal,  be- 
tween Trenton  and  Dean's  pond,  many  years  ago  by  Mr.  Stevens, 
that  is  between  Dean's  pond  station,  a  little  below  there  on 
the  Raritan  canal.  When  the  track  was  first  laid,  it  was  laid 
on  the  tow-path  of  the  canal :  since  that  time  the  railroad  has 
been  changed  and  straightened ;  the  bank  of  the  canal  was 
crooked,  but  while  that  was  lying  there,  Mr.  Steven's,  tried  that 
experiment  of  towing  barges  and  sailing  vessels  by  locomotive 
power  in  fleets,  somewhat  as  proposed  here. 

Q.  Is  there  any  question  as  to  the  power  of  the  locomotive  to 
do  it? 

A.  None. 

Q.  Is  the  locomotive  dragged  into  the  canal  because  it  is 
drawing  diagonally  % 
A.  No,  sir. 


60 


Q.  Then  from  personal  knowledge  and  what  was  done  there, 
you  have  no  question  in  your  own  mind  about  this  case  here  ? 

A.  I  have  none  from  the  natural  reasoning  powers  that  1  have, 
even  if  I  had  not  seen  or  known  of  that  ;  I  have  no  doubt  of  its 
feasibility. 

Q.  Is  there  an  opening  below  Haverstraw  to  get  down  to 
N  ew  Jersey  and  Bergen  Ridge  2 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  there  is  a  very  low  valley  there  on  Hackensack 
river  ;  probably  extends  to  within^less  than  one-half  a  mile  of 
the  Hudson  river. 

The  Chairman. — Is  that  still  in  operation  there  ? 

A.  No,  sir  ;  it  was  a  mere  experiment. 
Q.  How  long  ago  was  it  tried  \ 
A.  I  think  about  15  years  ago. 
Q.  It  was  abandoned  1 
A.  Yes,  sir  ;  it  was  merely  an  experiment. 
Q.  Then  by  their  not  continuing  it,  it  was  apparent  it  was  not 
practicable  ? 

A.  No,  sir  ;  I  did  not  take  it  so  ;  the  circumstances  under 
which  the  experiment  was  made — I  understood  the  reasons 
why  it  was  not  put  into  effect  were  on  account  of  the  peculiar 
location  of  that  canal,  the  shortness  of  it,  the  expense  that 
would  be  required  ;  it  was  found  in  that  case  that  it  would  re- 
quire a  track  on  each  bank  of  the  canal,  and  they  would  be 
compelled  to  put  a  track  on  the  other  bank  of  the  canal,  as 
they  had  a  large  and  growing  railroad  business  that  occupied 
that  track  ;  instead  of  building  another  track,  they  cut  across 
the  country,  and  it  made  a  straight  line  of  about  20  miles  in 
length  ;  by  leaving  the  canal  they  abandoned  the  project  from 
the  advantage  gained  to  the  railroad  traffic ;  the  canal  com- 
pany at  that  time  was  separate  from  the  railroad  company, 
but  Mr.  Stevens  was  a  large  stockholder  in  it  ;  this  was  Edwin 
A.  Stevens,  who  lived  at  Hoboken. 

Q.  It  was  on  account  of  the  rivalry  at  that  time  that  it  was 
not  put  into  effect  ? 

A.  I  was  in  the  employ  of  Mr.  Stevens  at  that  time  ;  I  heard 
some  talk  in  his  house  in  Hoboken,  and  I  learned  from  it  that 
he  had  made  this  experiment  and  satisfied  himself  that  the  cal- 
culations which  were  made,  taking  into  account  the  cost,  loca- 
tion and  the  difficulties  attendant  upon  getting  a  unity  of  in- 


61 


terest  and  the  increased  business  of  the  railroad  and  the  deter- 
mination to  straighten  and  change  its  line,  prevented  him  from 
going  further  with  it. 

Q.  What  company  was  this  8 

A.  It  was  the  Camdem  and  Amboy  railroad  company  that 
controlled  the  railroad  since  that  time  ;  an  act  which  was  passed 
in  New  Jersey  has  united  the  railroads. 

By  the  Chairman. — Does  the  Pennsylvania  Central  also  con- 
trol the  Delaware  and  Raritan  canal  % 

A.  It  controls  the  united  companies  of  which  the  Delaware 
and  Raritan  was  one. 

Q.  Since  the  consolidation  of  those  interests,  if  the  experi- 
ment was  practicable,  why  didn't  they  get  on  with  it  ? 

A.  I  am  not  able  to  say  ;  I  have  no  interest  in  that  enterprise; 
my  opinion  is  that  on  account  of  the  shortness  of  the  canal  and 
its  capacity  to  carry  large  steam  tugs  through  it,  and  because 
they  have  steam  towing  there  in  that  way  ;  and  it  would  not  be 
of  advantage  to  a  short  canal  like  this  as  it  would  be  on  a  canal 
like  the  Erie. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — How  long  was  this  canal  s 

A.  I  think  about  40  miles. 

Q.  Were  there  many  lockages  \ 

A.  Not  very  many  ;  no,  sir. 

Q.  In  what  capacity  did  you  traverse  the  west  shore  of  the 
Hudson  twice  afoot  \ 

A.  As  owner  of  a  part  of  the  Jersey  City  and  Albany  rail- 
road ;  I  went  up  and  down  that  river  with  a  view  to  determine 
in  my  own  mind  what  it  would  cost  to  complete  that  railroad. 

Q.  There  has  been  a  survey  made  of  the  west  shore  with  the 
idea  of  building  a  railroad  \ 

H.  I  understand  so,  or  of  some  portion  of  it. 

Q.  What  was  the  name  of  that  company  ? 

A.  I  think  there  was  two  companies  besides  the  one  I  am  in- 
terested in.  One  was  the  New  York  and  Chicago  and  Buffalo, 
or  some  such  title,  and  the  other  was  the  New  York  an^d 
Albany  ;  I  think  the  West  Shore  and  Chicago  is  all  one  concern. 

Q.  Do  you  know  why  that  was  not  constructed  ? 

A.  I  have  heard  :  I  understood  that  some  of  the  projectors  of 
that  company  made  a  loan  of  live  or  six  millions,  that  they  got 


62 


an  advance  of  one  and  a  half  millions  and  they  spent  that  con- 
trary to  the  terms  of  the.  loan,  and  the  parties  who  had  agreed 
to  advance  the  money  refused  to  advance  any  more. 

Q.  Have  they  any  rights  or  titles  on  your  line  now  3 

A.  The  road  has  been  recently  foreclosed. 

Q.  Would  that  interfere  in  any  way  with  that  proposed  line 
line  from  here  to  New  York  ? 

A.  No,  sir  ;  I  think  not. 

Q.  It  has  no  connection  with  it,  has  it,  that  you  know  of  % 

A.  None  at  all  ;  I  do  not  think  there  would  be  any  difficulty 
under  the  railroad  law  of  New  York  State  to  proceed  to  build 
it  at  once,  by  parties  having  the  required  capital ;  I  think  the 
road  is  all  free  and  open. 

Q.  Is  this  railroad  company  now  in  existence  as  a  company — 
the  West  Shore  \ 

A.  I  think  not  ;  it  is  only  recently  the  sale  has  been  effect- 
ed ;  they  were  obliged  to  go  through  some  form  of  organiza- 
tion, and  whether  they  have  done  that  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  They  are  in  existence,  are  they  not — perhaps  Mr.  Crane 
can  answer  ? 

Mr.  Crane. — The  sale  has  been  effected,  foreclosing  the  first 
mortgage,  and  the  stockholders  have  no  rights.  They  are  dis- 
possessed, and  the  railroad  is  bought  in  for  $35,000,  under  an 
order  of  the  Court ;  those  appointed  holders  are  mostly  in 
Europe,  and  are  ready  to  do  anything  they  can  get  anything 
out  of  ;  where  it  is  now,  it  is  entirely  valueless.  There  are  two 
or  three  corporations  that  may  be  availed  of  ;  I  can  state  here 
what  arrangements  have  been  made  to  perfect  this  line  on  the 
west  shore,  and  I  will  say  this  :  If  the  Legislature  see  fit  to 
pass  this  bill,  within  30  days  of  its  passage  there  will  be  a  per- 
fect and  complete  organization,  with  adequate  capital  to  com- 
plete a  line  along  the  Hudson  river  to  New  York. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — Does  this  project  have  anything  to  do  with 
the  parties  who  have  bought  out  the  original  stockholders  of 
the  Chicago  and  West  Shore  Railroad  % 

*  Mr.  Crane.  —Nothing  whatever,  direct  or  indirect,  within 
my  knowledge  ;  they  are  the  same  parties  precisely  who  have 
put  themselves  together  for  the  purpose  of  completing  and  per- 
fecting a  continuous  line  of  railroad  from  Buffalo  through  to 


63 


New  York,  that  have  this  in  charge,  and  I  will  say  here  to  the 
committee  that  if  it  was  proper  to  give  the  names,  some  of  the 
most  eminent  men  of  New  York  city,  capitalists  and  real  estate 
owners,  men  adequate  to  command  the  entire  confidence  of  the 
the  people,  are  among  the  number  ;  but  I  am  not  at  liberty  to 
give  their  names  ;  I  have  simply  laid  this  work  out. 

There  are  a  body  of  men  connected  with  the  Produce  Ex- 
change of  New  York  who  understand  this  subject  thoroughly. 
I  have  visited  personally  more  than  four  hundred  firms  in.  the 
city  of  New  York  within  the  last  twelve  months,  until  I  know 
their  inmost  surroundings,  and  could  I  give  you  here  the  his- 
tory of  some  young  men  in  New  York,  who  are  trying  to  get 
their  living,  you  would  see  that  two-thirds  of  that  body  of  men 
were  being  ruined  because  of  the  system  of  drawbacks  givan  to 
large  dealers. 

By  the  Chairman. — The  committee  want  to  get  at  the  expe- 
diency and  practicability  of  it. 

Mr.  Sheard,  to  the  witness. — You  know  personally  of  this 
towage,  of  the  system  on  the  canals  in  New  Jersey. 

A.  I  saw  the  boats  being  towed,  and  then  I  heard  from  the 
engineer  of  the  canal  and  the  president  some  details  ;  the  track 
was  laid  upon  one  side  of  the  canal ;  on  the  regular  side  they 
were  doing  the  railroad  business  then. 

Q.  It  happened  to  lie  parallel  to  the  canal,  and  near  enough 
to  use  the  tow-line  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  the  track  was  probably  as  near  to  the  canal 
there,  as  under  ordinary  circumstances  it  would  be,  if  there  was 
a  boat  there  to  tow. 

Q.  It  was  not  laid  there  for  that  purpose  ? 

A.  No,  sir;  but  because  of  the  grading  of  the  canal ;  we 
could  lay  a  track  there  and  use  it  from  Trenton  to  Brunswick, 
and  so  on  to  New  York. 

Q.  You  had  no  capacity  in  this  company,  so  you  could  not 
say  definitely  whether  it  was  a  success  financially  or  not  ? 
.  A.  No  ;  I  merely  heard  in  conversation  with  these  gentlemen 
and  Mr.  Stevens  himself,  that  he  considered  it  practicable  ;  that 
is,  that  these  boats  could  be  towed  by  locomotives,  and  if  the 
circumstances  were  favorable  it  would  be  a  feasible  thing  to  do. 

Q.  You  never  heard  the  cost  ? 

A.  No,  sir ;  nothing  farther  than  that. 


64 


Q.  It  is  a  fact  that  a  great  many  of  the  railroads  of  New  Jer- 
sey run  parallel  with  the  canal  for  some  distance,  near  enough 
to  attach  a  tow-line  to  an  engine  and  draw  a  boat  i 

A.  They  did  at  that  time;  thisonedid. 

Q.  There  was  not  any  others  that  did  I 

A.  Not  that  I  know  of  ;  no,  sir. 

By  Mr.  Crane. — You  spoke  of  the  short-cut ;  wasn't  that 
really  the  object  the  railroad  had  to  keep  possession  of  the 
ground  for  fear  some  one  else  would  take  it  I 

A.  No  ;  I  should  think  not. 

By  Mr.  Sheard. — I  have  noticed  traveling  through  New  Jer- 
sey there  were  tracks,  and  my  idea  was  to  get  the  practical  op- 
eration of  this,  whether  any  other  railroad  company  had  tried 
the  system  or  not  \ 

A.  The  Belvedere  road  for  a  short  distance  traverses  the 
banks  of  this  canal  ;  at  that  time  we  used  a  part  of  the  same 
line,  and  the  cars  passed  over  that  piece  of  track  and  along  the 
bank  of  the  canal  ;  one  branch  continued  east  on  the  New 
Brunswick,  and  the  other  branched  off  to  the  feeder,  and  so  on 
up  the  Delaware  river  ;  I  guess  that  track  does  now  run  along 
the  bank  of  the  canal. 

Q.  You  know  of  no  other  place  there  in  this  or  any  other 
country  where  the  system  has  been  tried  \ 

A.  I  have  no  practical  information. 

By  Mr.  Craxe. — How  many  miles  in  length  was  this  track  \ 
A.  I  think  it  must  have  been  probably  12  or  15  miles  where  it 
lay  near  the  canal,  and  then  it  verged. 

By  the  Chairman. — You  saw  this  experiment  tried  your- 
self \ 

A.  I  passed  by  and  saw  the  locomotive  actually  towing  the 
boat. 

A.  So  you  can  speak  of  that  from  actual  experience,  that  it 
seemed  to  be  successful ! 

A.  They  seemed  to  be  towing  them  along  certainly,  as  fast  as 
three  or  four  miles  an  hour. 

Q.  This  twelve  miles,  is  it  straight  ? 

A.  No,  sir  ;  a  good  many  crooks. 

Q.  Did  they  find  any  difficulty  in  butting  them  against  the 
bank  % 


65 


A.  No,  sir  ;  I  did  not  see  any  ;  I  watched  them  for  half  a 
mile  ;  I  heard  that  the  experiment,  so  far  as  the  movement  of 
the  boats  was  concerned,  was  entirely  successful. 

Q.  You  think  at  turning  points  there  was  difficulty  ? 

A.  I  think  if  the  boats  were  coupled  together  before  the  ex- 
periment was  put  into  working,  with  a  coupling  something  like 
that  of  cars  only  longer,  with  a  stiff  part  between  the  part  that 
moves  there  by  some  ball  and  socket  joint-hinged,  or  something 
of  that  kind  ;  I  don't  believe  there  would  beany  difficulty  what- 
ever in  steering  the  boats  around  the  curves  ;  I  think  the  for- 
ward and  rear  boats  would  be  all  that  it  would  be  necessary  to 
steer,  and  that  these  would  not  steer  any  harder  from  being- 
coupled  than  to  go  alone. 

Q.  Then  there  is  no  objection  that  you  have  heard  of  or  saw 
in  going  around  the  bends  of  this  canal  % 

A.  I  never  heard  there  was  any  difficulty  in  this  experiment 
so  far  as  the  practical  result  of  towing  by  the  locomotive  and 
running  through  the  canal  was^concerned. 

By  Me.  Crane. — You  had  that  from  Mr.  Stevens  himself  ? 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  and  also  from  the  President  of  the  canal  ;  1  was 
employed  as  engineer  by  Mr.  Stevens  ;  I  should  have  been  like- 
ly to  have  known  if  there  had  been  a  failure  ;  I  was  employed 
in  some  other  work  at  that  time  ;  I  was  in  his  employ,  I  think 
altogether  about  eight  years. 

Q.  How  long  did  they  continue  this  system  ? 

A.  It  was  introduced  only  as  an  experiment  for  several  days. 

Q.  During  that  time  you  only  saw  it  as  you  passed  by  % 

A.  Only  once,  and  that  was  about  a  half  mile  in  my  view. 

By  Me.  Sheaed. — Who  was  president  of  this  canal  compa- 
ny % 

A.  His  name  was  also  Stevens  ;  he  was  a  relative  of  Edwin. 
Q.  Can' t  you  give  his  full  name  % 

A.  I  am  very  defective  in  remembering  names  of  people ;  I 
guess  it  was  John  G. 

Q.  I  suppose  these  tracks  could  be  built  parallel  with  the 
canal,  even  around  the  curves  \ 

A.  There  is  no  trouble  about  a  three-feet  gauge. 

Me.  Ceane.— There  is  not  a  curve  in  the  Erie  canal,  to  my 
knowledge,  but  what  the  railroad  track  put  upon  that  bank  will 


66 


be  an  easier  curve  than  many  we  are  passing  every  day  of  the 
week,  and  that  one  of  the  shortest  curves  we  have  in  New 
England  is  on  the  Norwich  and  Worcester  railroad,  about  175 
feet,  and  at  that  curve  Mr.  Laure,  the  chief  engineer,  and  other 
engineers  were  called  into  requisition,  who  told  the  superinten- 
dent if  he  built  that  curve  they  could  not  pass  it  when  they  got  it 
up  ;  one  of  the  directors  said  :  "I  don't  care  what  you  practical 
engineers  say,  I  want  that  curve  put  up  just  as  I  told  you  ;  they 
put  it  up  ;  the  ordinary  train  runs  there,  and  has  passed  there 
and  never  had  an  accident  yet  ;  that  sh  ows  the  difference  be- 
tween engineering  on  paper  and  one  of  practical  results,  and 
some  of  the  most  eminent  engineers  ridicule  the  idea  of  that 
ever  being  used  when  done,  and  there  is  not  a  curve  on  the  line 
of  your  canal  but  what  is  double  that  radius. 

Mr.  Crane. — I  will  say  that  I  have  boatmen  in  New  York, 
and  I  have  boatmen  at  Buffalo,  on  different  lines  of  canal, 
which  I  propose  to  bring  here  as  the  case  proceeds,  if  it  is -called 
in  question  what  this  proposed  plan  will  be  for  the  boatmen  ; 
if  parties  say  boatmen  are  opposed  to  it,  I  wish  to  bring  men 
who  have  been  opposed  to  it,  who  are  now  its  friends,  after  in- 
vestigation ;  until  the  committee  is  satisfied,  I  wish  to  reserve 
that  as  rebutting  testimony  ;  if  when  the  parties  come  here  to 
oppose  it,  if  we  find  it  necessaiy,  we  shall  bring  in  the  rebutting 
testimony,  and  then  I  desire  to  present  all  the  evidence,  and 
give  it  to  you  in  concise  and  compact  form. 

Mr.  Ames,  recalled,  testified  : 
Examination  by  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  You  referred  to  the  Constitution  in  regard  to  the  canals  of 
the  State  ;  I  desire  to  ask  you  whether  in  your  opinion  you 
think  there  would  be  anything  in  the  passage  of  this  bill  in 
contravention  to  the  spirit  and  letter  of  the  Constitution  \ 

A.  I  have  never  considered  that  there  was  any  point  in  the 
question  that  would  interfere  with  the  Constitution.  The  cana[ 
is  perpetual;  "  forever,  "  is  the  word  I  think  that  is  used. 
This  railroad  would  be  a  part  and  parcel  of  the  canal,  owned 
by  the  State,  improved  by  this  improvement,  and  still  under 
the  same  Constitution  that  the  canal  has  been  for  the  last  fifty 
years.     I  would  regard  it  as  nothing  more  than  an  improve. 


67 


ment  to  make  the  canal  more  profitable  and  give  greater  facili- 
ties. 

Mr.  Crane,  addressing  the  committee  : 

We  owe  you  an  apology  ;  I  meant  to  have  made  it  earlier  in 
the  case.  In  coming  here  in  the  middle  of  March,  after  you 
had  been  in  session  down  to  March,  with  a  matter  of  so  great 
importance,  my  reason  was  simply  this  :  In  conversation  with 
one  of  the  most  eminent  lawyers  of  New  York,  he  put  this 
question  : 

"  Mr.  Crane,  have  you  ever  examined  the  Constitution  of  the 
State  of  New  York  as  amended  !  "  I  said,  "  I  have  an  old  Con- 
stitution before  it  was  amended.  "  I  did  not  look  into  it.  He 
says  :  "I  have  looked  over  your  bill  as  you  have  it  printed  in 
pamphlet,  and  I  think  there  are  some  points  to  be  questioned 
with  regard  to  its  constitutionality.  " 

I  felt  that  I  could  not  ask  any  man  to  pass  unconstitutional 
measures,  but  I  propose  to  perform  my  duties  directly  under 
the  Constitution.  I  said  to  him,  "  Wil  you  take  up  the  question  ; 
give  it  your  careful  consideration.  "  I  have  been  delayed  upon 
that  question  more  than  five  weeks,  and  when  the  next  hearing- 
comes  on,  we  are  going  to  ask  the  committee  do  this.  The  bill 
before  you  is  still  under  advisement,  and  that  bill  will  be 
amended  ;  and  the  reason  why  we  amend  it  is  to  give  you  an 
amended  bill  so  the  committee  can  say:  u  Gentlemen,  in  that 
bill,  counsel  tell  us  there  is  no  infringment  of  the  Constitution 
whatever.  "  This  party  is  one  of  the  most  eminent  counsel  in 
New  York  City.  A  member  of  Assembly  said  to  me  recently, 
"  Mr.  Crane,  waiting  so  long,  looks  as  though  there  was  a  catch 
somewhere.  "  I  told  him  there  were  good  and  substantial  rea- 
sons and  we  could  furnish  them  to  the  committee. 

The  Chairman. — The  committee  desire  to  act  with  candor 
and  frankness  in  this  matter,  but  this  seems  like  an  innovation. 

Mr.  Crane. — Yes,  sir  ;  and  I  offered  this  apology  for  that 
reason. 

Mr.  Sheard. — Has  there  been  any  conclusion  reached  by 
counsel  as  to  whether  the  bill  is  constitutional  or  not  ? 


68 


Mr,  Crane. — We  [will  ask  you  to  do  nothing  but  what  you 
ran  do  constitutionally. 

The  Chairman. — If  it  comes  to  a  constitutional  question  we 
will  notify  you  and  give  you  another  hearing.  I  think  we  have 
so  far  as  we  have  gone,  a  very  good  knowledge  of  the  testimony 
of  'yourself  and  others,  as  to  your  views  of  the  expediency  of 
it.  If  the  constitutional  question  arises  I  am  willing  to  grant 
a  hearing  on  that  ;  on  the  other  hand  if  there  is  opposition  to 
this  bill  of  course  gentlemen  will  come  forth. 

Mr.  Ames,  recalled : 
By  the  Chairman  : 
Q.  Are  you  an  incorporator  1 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  A  subscriber  in  stock  % 
A.  Yes. 

Mr.  Crane. — There  are  three  incorporators  at  Oswegt),  Mr. 
Ames,  Mr.  Doolittle  and  Mr.  Page. 

Mr.  Sheard  — In  breaking  the  bulk  of  grain  this  question  as 
to  the  effect  the  Welland  canal  will  have  upon  the  traffic  upon 
the  Erie  canal  is  very  much  dwelled  upon.  One  of  the  bugbears 
held  up  is  this — the  grain  will  go  from  the  West,  East  to  Liver- 
pool without  breaking  bulk — do  you  believe  that  to  be  prob- 
able in  the  near  future  % 

A.  No,  I  do  not  ;  my  reasons  are  that  the  vessels  that  are 
adapted  to  the  lake  navigation  are  not  adapted  to  the  ocean, 
and  the  cargoes  they  carry  are  so  small  as  compared  with  ocean 
vessels  that  they  are  not  likely  to  make  it  profitable  ;  if  they 
could  go  down  the  St.  Lawrence  they  could  go  with  barges 
cheaper  than  they  could  with  vessels. 

Q.  In  relation  to  handling  the  grain,  which  you  said  over- 
came the  expenses  of  shipment,  why  would  it  not  do  so  profit- 
ably to  carry  the  grain  in  bulk  as  to  occasionally  break  the 
bulk  and  give  it  air  ? 

A.  I  do  not  know  as  there  was  any  advantage  beyond  the 
fact  that  it  merely  gives  it  an  airing  ;  when  grain  lies  too  long 
in  the  vessel  or  boat,  it  is  apt  to  gather  moisture,  heat  and  must; 
being  aired  by  elevator,  dispels  whatever  may  be  accumulated 
of  moisture  or  mold,  therefore  it  is  put  into  another  or  the  same 
vessel  and  handled  again  soon.    If  a  vessel  comes  from  Chicago 


69 


to  Oswego  we  run  it  through  an  elevator  and  to  a  canal  boat, 
and  in  New  York  it  is  elevated  and  put  into  a  ship. 

Q.  You  said  this  handling  actually  increased  the  value  of  the 
grain  % 

A.  I  did  say  it  was  an  advantage,  but  it  is  not  an  advantage 
that  would  increase  the  price  or  its  value  other  than  to  prevent 
damage  and  preserve  its  quality. 

Q.  The  idea  of  equalling  at  this  point  is  this  ;  of  course  you 
may  increase  the  traffic  of  the  canal  or  its  capacity  by  adding 
steam  towage  ;  but  you  do  not  propose  to  change  the  fact  that 
they  must  break  their  bulk.  There  must  be  these  elevator 
charges,  etc.  My  idea  of  last  night  tended  to  show  how  and 
why  the  canal  traffic  would  actually  be  kept  up  ;  do  I  under- 
stand that  the  actual  advantage  to  the  grain  when  placed  in 
market  by  being  elevated,  will  overcome  these  technical 
charges  \ 

A.  I  would  hardly  think  there  would  be  an  increased  value  to 
overcome  the  charge  of  elevating ;  it  can  be  done  for  \  of  a 
cent.  In  the  way  I  meant  by  preventing  damage  of  long  lying, 
that  obviates  the  probabilities  of  damage  or  danger. 

Q.  There  would  always  be  a  certain  amount  of  risk  in  ship- 
ping grain  to  the  East  and  not  breaking  bulk  until  you  get  to  the 
seaboard. 

A.  Yes,  sir ;  it  is  accounted  really  as  a  risk,  because  people 
usually  calculate  to  buy  sound  grain  and  to  handle  it  in  a  man- 
ner that  shall  not  accumulate  damage  and  therefore  it  don't 
come  into  particular  account. 

Q.  In  case  you  bought  so  many  bushels  of  grain  in  Chicago 
to  be  shipped  to  the  seaboard  and  you  could  ship  it  through 
the  Welland  canal  without  breaking  bulk  or  through  the* Buf- 
falo, Erie  and  Hudson  with  breaking  bulk,  which  route,  natur- 
ally studying  your  own  interests,  would  you  choose  \ 

A.  It  has  got  to  be  handled  if  it  goes  by  way  of  Montreal,  for 
the  reason  there  has  never  been  a  cargo  sent  from  the  western 
lakes  to  Europe  ;  there  has  been  lumber,  etc.,  but  I  have  no 
knowledge  of  grain. 

Q.  Will  it  be  when  the  Welland  canal  is  open  the  same  % 

A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  This  bugbear  of  being  obliged  to  ship  through  without 
breaking  bulk  is  in  fact  simply  a  bugbear  % 
A.  It  is. 


70 

THIRD  DAY'S  HEARING. 


Tuesday,  March  25,  1879. 

Mr.  Crane — I  have  received  a  letter  from  Mr.  Darius  A. 
Ogden,  ex-Canal  Commissioner,  which  I  desire  to  present  to  the 
committee. 

Letter  from  Darius  A.  Ogden. 

Penn  Yan,  March  20,  1879. 

Mr.  Crane  : 

My  Dear  Sir — Could  I  have  remained  in  Albany  I  would 
have  said  to  the  Canal  Committee,  that  from  the  partial  ex- 
amination I  have  give  your  system  of  towing  boats  on  the 
canals  by  means  of  an  iron  track  and  locomotive,  it  was  practi- 
cable, and  that  loaded  boats  by  this  means  could  be  propelled 
at  least  three  and  a  half  (3£)  miles  an  hour  (I  think  with  great- 
er speed),  which  fact  would  of  itself  more  than  double  the  ca- 
pacity of  the  Erie  canal  for  transportation.  That  is,  you 
could  move  twice  as  many  loaded  boats  in  any  given  time 
from  Buffalo  to  Albany.  (The  speed  for  light  or  partially 
loaded  boats  from  Albany  to  Buffalo  could  be  increased  to  five 
miles  an  hour.)  To  begin  with,  then,  you  have  more  than 
double  the  capacity  of  your  canal  without  expense  to  the 
State  ;  thus  it  is  proposed  to  tow  the  boats  at  less  than  half  the 
expense  of  the  present  cost  of  towing  ;  thus  cheapening  navi- 
gation, and  thus  inviting  the  increased  business  which  the  in- 
creased capacity  will  enable  you  to  carry.  Would  not  this  ca- 
pacity to  carry  with  the  low  or  cheap  transportation  secure  to 
you  beyond  question  the  carrying  trade  for  the  productions  of 
the  great  West,  as  well  as  those  of  the  western  part  of  your 
own  State,  and  can  you  retain  this  with  the  competition  of 
Canada's  Public  Works  and  the  river  St.  Lawrence  in  any 
other  way  ? 

Again,  the  result  of  this  system  will  necessarily  strengthen 
and  render  more  permanent  the  canal  itself.    To  place  an  iron 


71 


railway  on  either  side  of  the  canal,  its  whole  length,  will  give 
solidity  to  its  banks,  will  diminish  the  liability  to  breaks  and 
injury,  will  facilitate  repairs  in  case  breaks  do  occur,  will  put 
the  entire  canal  under  constant  watch  and  care  for  its  whole 
length  ;  it  will  be  an  iron-bound  canal,  with  permanent  banks, 
and  under  constant  surveillance,  and  boatmen  would  feel  en- 
tirely secure  in  navigating  its  waters  thus  hemmed  in  and 
guarded,  and  all  this  secured  without  cost  to  the  State  ;  instead 
of  drying  up  this  canal,  it  would  most  certainly  perpetuate  it, 
and  make  it  as  secure  a  waterway  and  route  as  could  be — more 
secure  than  a  natural  river,  subject  to  its  floods  and  its  low 
water.  This  system,  doing  what  it  proposes,  gives  the  great  de- 
sideratum permanence  to  your  canals,  with  capacity  and  ex- 
treme cheapness  of  transportation.  Are  there  doubts  as  to  the 
results,  let  them  be  solved  by  actual  experiment,  put  a  proviso 
in  the  bill,  that  the  bill  shall  not  go  into  effect,  or  work  begin, 
until  a  practical  test  or  experiment  has  been  made  under  the 
supervision  of  the  State  Engineer  or  Superintendent  of  Public 
Works,  and  their  certificate  of  its  feasibility.  This  certainly 
would  take  away  all  obligation,  and  a  project  which  promises 
such  grand  results  has  a  right  to  be  thus  tested,  the  object 
being  to  secure  and  perfect  our  canal  system,  to  put  it  beyond 
danger  for  the  future,  and  to  secure  to  the  State  and  the  people 
the  great  advantages  to  result  therefrom.  I  am  heartily  in  favor 
of  perpetuating  the  canals  ;  we  can't  afford  to  lose  them,  and 
must  not. 

This  railway  towing  tracks  laid  down  guarding  and  protect- 
ing the  canals,  subject  to  the  control  of  the  State  authorities, 
what  possible  objection  to  their  carrying  freight  and  passengers 
in  the  winter  or  in  the  summer,  if  done  so  as  not  to  impede  or 
endanger  canal  navigation,  would  it  not  result  in  good  to  the 
people,  would  it  not  cheapen  transportation  by  opening  fair  and 
proper  competition,  would  it  not  protect  the  people  from  the 
extortion  of  great  monopolies,  and  would  not  the  public  good 
be  subserved  thereby  \  but  are  questions  which  I  do  not  pro- 
pose to  discuss.  The  committee,  I  am  sure,  will  grasp  the  whole 
question  and  give  it  a  fair  and  candid  examination,  keeping  in 
view  the  perpetuation  and  improvement  of  our  canals,  and 
the  best  possible  system  for  reducing  the  cost  of  transportation 
on  them.    The  waterways  north  of  us  are  our  competitors,  and 


72 


we  must  see  to  it  that  they  do  not  bring  us  to  grief  by  increased 
facilities  while  we  remain  idle. 

Yours  truly, 

D.  A.  OGDEN. 

Mr.  Crane  for  the  petitioners,  stated  that  if  they  could  have 
thirty  minutes,  they  would  be  able  to  close  their  case,  and  would 
agree  that  the  opponents  of  the  bill  might  close  either  at  a  pub- 
lic hearing  or  in  writing,  as  they  might  agree.  This  was  acceded 
to  by  the  committee. 

Opportunity  was  then  given  for  any  other  parties  present  for 
or  against  the  bill  to  speak. 

Mr.  J.  W.  Culver,  an  attorney  from  New  York  city,  spoke  in 
behalf  of  several  clients,  boatmen  having  large  boating  interests 
upon  the  canals,  as  follows  : 

Mr.  J.  W.  Culver  appeared  before  the  committee  and  said: 
Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  a  number  of  clients  who  are  boatmen,  and 
a  number  of  them  have  been  to  my  office  in  New  York  within 
the  last  week,  respecting  this  bill,  and  I  have  been  requested 
to  come  here  to  look  on  and  hear  ;  I  have  some  clients  who  are 
important  forwarders,  having  offices  in  New  York  and  Buffalo, 
who  own  a  great  many  boats.  Now,  I  desire  to  say,  that  so  far 
as  my  connection  has  developed,  the}r  are  unacquainted  with 
the  feasibility  of  the  enterprise  of  towing  boats  by  steam  upon 
rails,  but  they  are  uniformly  in  favor  of  this  or  any  other  plan 
tli at  can  be  devised,  by  which  they  can  get  rid  of  their  horse 
power  for  the  propulsion  of  boats.  They  told  me  that  it  cost 
them  from  17  to  20  cents  per  mile  to  tow  their  boats  by  animal 
power  ;  they  are  not  in  favor  of  a  railroad  unless  it  is  a  better 
plan,  but  if  it  is,  they  will  be  in  favor  of  it,  and  hope  for  the 
passage  of  a  bill  that  will  relieve  them  in  that  direction.  They 
have  pretty  substantially  told  me  there  was  no  money  in  boat- 
ing as  it  has  been  carried  on  for  the  last  few  years,  and  that  it 
has  been  in  consequence  of  low  freight,  and  the  expense  in  tow- 
ing their  boats,  wear  and  tear,  and  slow  mode  of  transportation 
in  competing  with  steam  railroads.  Now,  I  know  nothing  about 
this.  I  simply  want  to  place  before  the  committee  what  has  been 
said  to  me  by  these  persons,  that  they  are  in  favor  of  any  plan 


73 


that  will  relieve  them  ;  but  they  do  not  know,  they  have  not 
investigated,  and  it  would,  of  course,  require  experiment  or 
some  other  education  to  develop  the  soheme  as  being  practi- 
cable. 

The  Chairman. — I  desire  to  ask  Mr.  Culver  if  you  represent 
any  number  of  boatmen  in  the  matter  \ 

Mr.  Culver. — Only,  sir,  in  the  way  I  have  stated.  They  have  « 
taken  an  interest  in  this  thing  ;  some  of  them  are  owners  of 
boats,  and  some  of  them  forwarders.  I  have  spoken  to  them 
with  reference  to  this  boat-owners1  association,  and  they  have 
said  there  was  an  association  of  boatmen  in  New  York.  I  do 
not  think  any  of  my  people  belong  to  it  ;  I  do  not  know  that 
they  do.  I  inquired  of  some  of  them,  and  they  did  not  belong- 
to  it. 

The  Chairman. — From  what  they  told  you,  are  you  under 
the  impression  that  this  plan  will  be  feasible  \ 

Mr.  Culver. — They  were  acquainted  with  it ;  they  thought 
if  it  would  do  the  work  they  would  like  to  have  it. 

The  Chairman. — Were  they  willing  to  take  the  chances  ? 

.  Mr.  Culver. — They  were,  if  experienced  men  would  approve 
,  it  as  I  understood  it. 

Mr.  Sheard. — Mr.  Culver,  from  your  intercourse  with  boat- 
men, I  suppose  you  have  heard  some  objection  to  this  principle  ? 

Mr.  Culver. — I  have  not ;  I  have  heard  from  some  of  them 
that  they  knew  men  who  were  opposed  to  it. 

Q.  So  far  as  you  are  able  to  judge,  does  not  the  objection 
arise  more  from  the  fear  that  it  may  ultimately  dry  up  the 
canal,  than  it  does  to  the  proposed  system  of  towing  which  the 
bill  provides  for  % 

Mr.  Culver. — I  do  not  think  I  have  heard  that  suggested. 
They  are  very  jealous  of  the  Central  railroad.  Some  of  them 
did  not  know  but  what  it  might  be  a  war  on  the  part  of  the 
Central  railroad  to  get  possession  of  the  canals.  I  think  that 
was  about  the  only  theory  that  was  advanced  in  that  direction. 

Q.  So  far  as  your  experience  with  the  boatmen  goes,  if  the 


74 


fact  could  be  fully  demonstrated  and  proved  that  it  was  not  for 
the  purpose  of  drying  up  the  canals,  and  driving  boatmen 
entirely  from  their  occupation  that  they  would  not  be  so  much 
opposed  to  the  introduction  of  the  system? 

A.  So  far  as  my  observation,  experience  and  interchange 
with  these  men  go,  I  think  they  would  be  in  favor  of  it. 

Q.  If  it  were  not  for  that  fear,  generally  speaking  ? 

A.  I  think  so. 

By  the  Chairman. — Q.  Did  they  believe  it  to  be  practicable  \ 

A.  There  are  not  many  that  I  have  talked  with  that  really 
know  much  about  it ;  they  think  it  is  a  new  thing,  and  almost 
everything  they  see  now  is  possible,  and  there  are  so  many  im- 
provements they  would  like  to  see  it  tried. 

Q.  Do  you  think  they  favor  a  trial  of  this  % 

A.  I  think  they  would  like  to  see  the  experiment  tried. 

Q.  How  many  boatmen  do  you  represent  ? 

A.  There  is  one  house  that  I  represent  which  owns  a  large 
fleet  of  boats,  and  a  number  of  men — I  do  not  know  how  many, 
I  think  four  or  five — have  been  to  my  office. 

By  Mr.  Valkenburgh. — Q.  Are  these  gentlemen  you  repre- 
sent owners  of  boats  % 

A.  Every  one  of  them.  ( 
Q.  Who  run  their  own  boats  % 

A.  Yes,  sir  ;  and  one  firm  owns  a  good  many,  probably  fifty. 

Mr.  H.  E.  Tremain,  of  New  York  city,  in  behalf  of  the  peti- 
tioners, proceeded  and  made  the  closing  argument  as  follows  : 


Closing  argument  by  Mr.  Henry  Edwin  Trem  ain, 
of  New  York. 
Gentlemen  of  the  Committee  : 

This  measure  is  neither  a  private  nor  a  local  one.  It  concerns 
the  whole  people  of  the  State.  It  affects  the  State  as  a  com- 
mercial, social,  and  therefore  political  power,  and  it  affects  its 
inhabitants  in  their  individual  interests.  It  touches  the  finan- 
ces of  the  State,  its  revenues,  its  appropriations,  and  its  ex- 
penditures. It  touches  the  operations  of  gigantic  corporations 
and  the  personal  industries  of  various  classes  and  localities.  It 


75 


touches  the  public  and  private  usefulness  of  our  great  highway  s ; 
the  present  service  and  future  prospects  of  our  canals;  and  it  pre- 
ends  to  accomplish  their  immediate  and  permanent  improve- 
ment, without  the  appropriation  of  a  dollar.  Without  being 
radical  in  its  nature,  without  being  one  step  in  advance  or 
indeed  scarcely  coincident  with  the  progressive  spirit  of  our 
age,  no  proposition  has  been  before  the  Legislature  for  many 
years  more  directly  calculated  to  influence  the  material  interests  « 
of  our  great  commonwealth. 

If  it  be  true  that  the  measure  under  consideration  solves  the 
problem  of  cheap  transportation  from  the  lakes  to  the  seaboard, 
and  secures  appropriate  and  reduced  prices  for  through  and 
local  traffic,  with  fixed  and  uniform  rates  at  all  seasons  of  the 
year  ;  if  it  be  true  that  costly  improvements  may  be  made  to 
the  State  canals  without  taxation  ;  if  it  be  true  that  the  annual 
expenses  of  keeping  the  canals  in  repair  may  be  diminished  and 
their  revenues  increased,  while,  at  the  same  time,  tolls  may  be 
lowered  ;  if  it  be  true  that  canal  boats  may  be  towed  by  loco- 
motive power  on  the  Erie  Canal  at  less  rate  per  mile  than  is  now 
charged  per  mile  on  the  Hudson  River  ;  if  it  be  true  that  canal 
boats  thus  towed  may  make  eleven  trips  per  season,  while  now 
the  average  does  not  exceed  seven  trips  ;  if  it  be  true  that  boat 
owners  are  now  running  their  boats  without  substantial  profit) 
while  by  the  new  system  they  may  increase  their  business  up- 
wards of  fifty  per  cent.,  while  lessening  their  expenses  ;  if  it  be 
true  that  the  canal  revenues  may  be  increased  from  the  subsidi- 
ary traffic  inevitable  upon  the  introduction  of  this  system  of 
towage  by  locomotives  ;  and  if  it  be  true  that  all  these  benefits 
may  be  achieved  without  interfering  with  the  existing  rights  of 
any  individual  or  corporation,  and  without  impairing  the  unre- 
stricted and  perpetual  control  of  the  canals  as  now  vested  in  the 
State  of  New  York  ;  then  who  will  undertake  to  give  any  other 
than  an  affirmative  answer  to  the  question,  Shall  this  measure 
prevail  ? 

By  the  proceedings  before  this  committee  you  have  addressed 
yourselves,  Mr.  Chairman  and  gentlemen,  towards  demon- 
strating these  facts. 

Divesting  myself,  as  far  as  possible,  from  the  natural  preju- 
dice attendant  upon  the  professional  advocate,  my  own  convic- 
tion is  clear  that,  upon  the  conceded  facts  available  to  all  who 
examine  this  interesting  subject,  and  upon  the  evidence  adduced 


76 


during  the  patient  and  discriminating  investigation  conducted 
by  this  committee,  there  is  but  one  conclusion  upon  each  and 
all  of  the  several  inquiries  I  have  thus  contingently  pro- 
pounded. 

Cheap  transportation,  gentlemen,  depends  in  the  first  instance 
upon  the  capital  requiring  income  from  the  traffic.  As  between 
two  lines  of  communication,  the  one  requiring  earnings  on  a 
capital  of  one  hundred  million,  and  the  other  requiring  a  return 
upon  only  twenty-five  million,  the  latter  can  always  afford, 
other  things  being  equal,  to  do  the  business  the  cheaper. 

That  under  existing  combinations  there  is  a  discrimination  in 
freights  from  the  West  against  New  York,  and  in  favor  of 
Baltimore  by  five  cents  a  to??,  and  in  favor  of  Philadelphia  by 
three  cents,  may  be  partially  explained  from  the  circumstance 
that  the  Baltimore  and  Ohio  Railroad  requires  to  earn  interest, 
as  stated  before  this  committee,  on  only  about  fifty  million 
dollars  between  Baltimore  and  Chicago  ;  while  the  New  York 
Central  must  earn  or  strive  to  earn  between  Buffalo  and  New 
York  a  return  of  over  seven  per  cent,  (on  the  average)  on  one 
hundred  and  fifty-two  million,  and  the  Erie  say  six  per  cent, 
on  one  hundred  and  twenty  million. 

While  New  York  lines  were  not  obliged  to  compete  with 
those  other  great  artificial  avenues  of  commerce,  which  are 
drawing  through  their  business  that  naturally  belongs  to  New 
York,  our  Erie  Canal  acted  as  a  regulator  ;  and  indeed,  pai> 
tially,  though  with  abated  influence,  performs  that  office  still. 
At  the  close  of  navigation,  however,  freights  are  at  the  mercy 
of  this  capitalized  power. 

The  New  York  roads  too,  with  their  larger  capital  requiring 
income  in  competing  for  the  traffic  of  the  great  West,  are  large- 
ly at  the  mercy  of  the  roads  south  of  us.  The  capital  of  the 
Central,  for  instance,  as  between  New  York  and  Chicago,  is 
about  $220,000,000,  on  which  an  earning  must  be  made  ;  as 
against  886,000,000  only  of  the  Baltimore  and  Ohio  on  $36,000- 
000,  of  which,  because  it  is  the  accumulation  from  surplus  earn- 
ings, no  interest  need  be  earned  ;  or  as  against  $180,000,000  of 
the  Pennsylvania  Central.  In  this  condition  of  railroad 
finances,  when  will  New  York  cease  to  be,  as  it  is  now,  at  the 
mercy  of  its  rival  lines  ? 

If  the  capital  on  which  income  is  to  be  paid  is  but  twenty- 
six  million,  and  if  the  outside  rates  are  fixed  by  the  State,  as  in 


77 

this  bill  proposed,  and  made  capable  after  a  few  years,  under 
the  State's  ownership,  of  being  adjusted  upon  the  basis  of  act- 
ual cost  of  transportation,  then  the  great  commercial  problem 
of  New  York  is  solved. 

Leaving  out  of  question  any  possibilities  concerning  the  exe- 
cution of  the  project,  a  RAILROAD  SUBSIDIARY  TO  THE 
CANAL,  owned  by  the  State,  run  temporarily  by  a  company 
under  contract  with  the  State,  to  tow  boats  at  a  charge  not  ex- 
ceeding ten  cents  per  boat  per  mile,  and  three-quarters  of  a  cent 
per  ton  per  mile  for  through  freight ;  and  one  and  a  half  cents 
per  ton  per  mile,  with  twenty  cents  for  handling  local  freights, 
and  one  and  a  half  cents  per  mile  for  passengers,  ACHIEVES 
the  moment  it  is  put  in  operation  all  the  ends  sought  to  be  at- 
tained by  any  scheme  of  CHEAP  TRANSPORTATION  hither- 
to submitted. 

If  with  these  or  any  cheaper  rates  the  subsidiary  railroad 
will  pay  five  per  cent,  semi-annually  on  its  stock,  and  accumu- 
late a  sinking  fund  in  the  hands  of  the  Commissioners  of  the 
Canal  Fund,  that  in  lers  than  ten  years  wiil  absorb  its  cepital 
then  the  canal,  with  its  subsidiary  railway  owned  and  controll- 
ed entirely  by  the  State,  will  resume  its  normal  attitude  of  reg- 
ulating the  rates  of  transportation  between  the  lakes  and  the 
sea.  The  commerce  of  the  great  West,  which  finds  its  natural 
and  geographical  channel  through  the  State  of  New  York,  will 
then  be  at  our  command  ;  and  freight  and  passengers  may  be 
transferred  from  one  point  to  another,  within  our  own  State,  at 
the  actual  cost  of  transportation. 

First. — You  secure  cheap  transportation  because  earnings  on 
a  limited  capital  of  twenty-six  million  are  required. 

Second. — You  ensure  its  perpetuity  because  the  surplus  earn- 
ings on  this  capital  will  in  a  short  time  vest  the  entire  property 
it  represents  in  the  State. 

We  challenge  any  test  to  these  considerations.  They  solve 
the  problem  of  cheap  transportation,  which  successive  legisla- 
tive committees  have  investigated,  examined  and  fruitlessly  re- 
ported upon.  With  all  the  complaints  against  the  existing 
condition  of  affairs,  and  all  that  has  been  said  or  written  on 
this  subject,  where  may  the  definite  proposition  be  found  on 
which  the  Legislature  of  New  York  shall  act  I 

Capital  stands  ready  to  do  for  the  Empire  State  that  which 
unfortunately,  without  appropriation  and  consequent  taxation, 


78 

she  is  unable  to  do  for  herself.  It  asks  no  return,  but  a  fair 
interest  on  the  investment,  as  in  due  time  it  maybe  earned,  and 
no  privileges  and  concessions  beyond  those  enjoyed  by  all  the 
people  under  its  Constitution  and  laws. 

With  an  honest  pride  in  the  history  and  progress  of  my 
native  State,  I  press  the  inquiry  :  Is  it  not  time  to  progress 
from  serious  investigation  to  actual  experiment  ? 

The  Buffalo,  Syracuse  and  Albany  Railroad  Company  pro- 
poses, under  the  control  of  the  proper  State  officers,  to  make  all 
the  improvements  necessary  for  establishing  towage  by  locomo- 
tives between  the  Lakes  and  the  Hudson  River  ;  to  construct 
all  the  gradings,  crossings,  roadways,  structures,  and  to  lay  all 
the  tracks  that  may  be  necessary  for  that  purpose.  Its  pro- 
jected line  extends  not  only  from  Buffalo  to  Albany,  but 
through  to  New  York  on  the  west  side  of  the  Hudson,  thus 
securing  the  through  line  to  the  seaboard  that  is  essential  to 
success.  It  proposes  that  every  stone,  every  tie,  every  rail, 
every  fixture  of  any  kind  whatever  that  may  be  placed  upon 
the  canal  banks,  shall  immediately  become  the  property  of  the 
State  of  New  York  ;  and  that  every  item  of  authority  and  con- 
trol now  vested  in  the  State  over  its  canals  shall  continue  as 
now  vested  by  the  Constitution  and  laws  ;  and  that  the  free  and 
unrestricted  use  of  the  canals,  as  now  provided  by  law,  shall 
not  be  interfered  with  ;  and  that  all  the  operations  of  the  com- 
pany shall  be  subject  to  the  existing  rights  of  the  State. 

What  is  to  be  built  upon  State  property  by  this  company, 
injures  no  one  but  the  company  in  case  of  failure,and  benefits  the 
State  in  any  event.  All  the  stock  and  obligations  of  the  com- 
pany will  be  subordinate  to  the  property  rights  of  the  State, 
and  to  the  right  of  the  Commissioners  of  the  Canal  Fund  to  pur- 
chase the  stock  and  bonds  at  the  lowest  price  obtainable,  not 
exceeding  one  hundred  and  Mty  dollars  for  one  hundred  dollars 
of  stock,  and  one  hundred  and  thirty  dollars  for  one  hundred 
dollars  of  bonds.  An  income  of  five  per  cent,  semi-annually  on 
a  million  dollars  worth  of  stock  at  par,  to  be  transferred  to  the 
Commissioners  of  the  Canal  Fund  on  making  the  contract,  is 
guaranteed.  The  State  begins  with  an  income  of  one  hundred 
thousand  dollars  from  the  gross  earnings  of  the  road,  payable 
before  its  current  expenses,  when  the  work  between  Buffalo  and 
Albany  shall  have  been  completed.    This  must  be  within  three 


79 


years.  Arrangements  have  already  been  made  for  the  comple- 
tion of  a  road  from  Albany  to  Bergen  Heights. 

The  earnings  between  Buffalo  and  New  York,  on  any  calcu- 
lation that  may  be  made,  exhibit  the  ability  for  this  road, at  the 
rates  named  in  the  bill,  to  pay  for  itself  out  of  its  surplus  earn- 
ings, over  and  above  five  percent,  semi-annually  on  its  stock,in 
less  than  ten  years.  This  needs  no  demonstration.  Less  prom- 
ising railroads  could  be  named  whose  surplus  earnings  have 
paid  the  original  cost  of  construction  in  a  shorter  time.  If  the 
surplus  earnings,  after  paying  all  dividends,  equalled  one  and 
a  half  million  a  year,  it  is  a  simple  question  in  arithmetic  how 
soon  this  sum,  in  the  hands  of  the  Commissioners  of  the  Canal 
Fund,  compounded,  in  addition  to  the  one  million  dollars  of 
stock  and  dividends  thereon,  would  equal  twenty -five  million. 
The  large  amount  (namely,  $90,000,000  of  stock,  and  $22,000,- 
000  guaranteed  to  the  Harlem)  $112,000,000,  upon  which  the 
N.  Y.  Central  pays  presumably  from  its  earnings  eight  per 
cent,  per  annum,  in  addition  to  paying  six  per  cent,  upon  bonds 
of  $40,000,000,  is  an  illustration  of  the  possibilities  on  a  capital 
of  $26,000,000. 

That  such  surplus  earnings  would  not  be  less  than  $1,500,000 
per  annum,  but  probably  more,  is  the  estimate  made  by  every 
expert  who  has  examined  the  subject.  Upon  the  basis  of  the 
boats  moved  last  year,  as  shown  by  the  canal  reports,  and  that 
the  new  road  will  secure  one-quarter  of  the  traffic  east  of 
Buffalo  and  Oswego,  it  has  been  estimated  that  the  gross  earn- 
ings from  Buffalo,  Oswego,  and  intermediate  points  to  New 
York,  will  not  be  less  than  $7,000,000  per  annum.  In  addition 
to  this,  of  course  its  full  share  of  freights  from  points  west  of 
Buffalo  will  be  received  the  first  year,  which  will  largely  in- 
crease these  receipts.  From  $7,000,000  deduct  the  estimated 
expenses  of  $3,000,000,  and  (six  per  cent,  on  $11,000,000  of 
bonds,  and  ten  per  cent,  on  $15,000,000  of  stock  as  contemplated) 
say  $2,200,000,  for  dividends  and  interest,  and  we  have  $1,800,- 
000,  as  the  lowest  estimate  attained  for  the  annual  benefit  of  the 
sinking  fund  to  be  created  under  this  bill. 

Giving  this  line  the  natural  growth  of  business  it  will  surely 
receive,  without  drawing  for  it  upon  existing  lines,  its  friends 
claim  that  during  the  next  ten  years  the  annual  surplus  of  earn- 
ings available  for  this  sinking  fund  will  equal  three  million 
per  annum. 


80 


Accumulating  thus  rapidly,  the  State  might  wisely  prefer  not 
to  absorb  all  this  capital  immediately.  Discretion  is  therefore 
given  in  the  bill  to  the  Commissioners  of  the  Canal  Fund  to  use 
some  part  of  this  surplus  towards  paying  the  canal  debt  of  the 
State,  or  towards  reducing  the  tolls  on  the  canals.  If  by  such 
reductions  the  canals  shall  ultimately  become  free,  it  will  be 
much  more  satisfactory  to  the  people  of  this  State  than  to  ac- 
complish the  same  purpose  by  constitutional  amendment.  It 
may  well  be  doubted  whether,  in  the  present  condition  of  affairs, 
or  under  such  circumstances  as  are  likely  to  exist  for  years  to 
come,  the  people  of  this  State  will  consent  to  be  taxed  for  the 
free  support  of  the  canals. 

Unless  there  is  some  grave  error  in  these  considerations,  the 
legislation  now  urged  points  to  free  canals.  If  it  would 
not  ultimately  make  the  canals  a  free  highway,  it  certainly 
tends  to  render  them  self-sustaining.  True  statesmanship 
should  be  practical ;  and  practical  statesmanship  demands 'an 
effort  to  render  not  only  the  canals,  but  a  gieat  thoroughfare 
to  be  constructed  along  their  banks,  free  public  highways,  from 
the  lakes  to  the  sea.  If  you  may  construct  one  for  nothing, 
see  that  the  opportunity  be  not  rejected.  When  the  construc- 
tion is  in  good  faith  proposed,  give  it  all  the  sanction  within 
your  legislative  authority.  Instruct  your  respective  State 
officers  to  extend  all  the  aid  within  their  respective  spheres,  and 
so  plan  your  work  that  it  shall  neither  burden  nor  annoy  the 
people,  and  that  it  shall  maintain  itself,  and  promise  it  may  be 
an  ultimate  revenue. 

The  best  guarantee  not  only  of  the  feasibility,  but  of  the 
final  success,  as  well  as  good  faith  and  ultimate  benefits  of  this 
measure,  is  the  circumstance  that  the  capital,  not  the  State, 
incurs  the  risk.  And  "what  is  the  motive  ?  "  asked  one  of  the 
committee  the  other  day.  What  is  the  pecuniary  interest  to 
be  favored  by  this  measure,  out  of  which,  of  course,  money 
must  be  made,  or  money  would  not  be  furnished  to  undertake 
it  \  The  answer  is  :  Five  per  cent,  semi-annually  on  the  stock, 
with  a  sinking,  fund  certain  to  redeem  every  bond  and  every 
share  of  stock,  at  a  profit,  if  insisted  upon,  of  fifty  per  cent, 
on  the  stock,  and  thirty  per  cent,  on  the  bonds.  The  sinking 
fund,  so  useful  to  the  State,  is  of  reciprocal  advantage  to  the 
company.  The  proposition,  of  course,  involves  mutual  benefits. 
Are  not  the  benefits  to  the  State  more  than  adequate  to  the 


81 


siender  service  required  from  it  in  the  passage  of  this  bill,  in 
the  making  of  the  contract  called  for  by  it,  and  in  the  super- 
vision by  the  constitutional  authority  of  the  work  contem- 
plated on  the  public  domain  ? 

Having  in  view  the  purpose  of  accomplishing  transportation 
through  our  State,  by  land  or  by  water,  through  and  local,  at 
as  near  its  actual  cost  as  possible,  the  committee  have  wisely 
devoted  such  time  as  has  been  necessary  towards  establishing 
the  facts  in  this  respect.  It  may  well  be  said,  however,  on  the 
part  of  the  State,  that  ihis  is  a  matter  of  secondary  importance. 
There  will  be  no  dispute  that  the  establishment  of  a  new  high- 
way, or  the  improvement  of  the  canal  banks,  would  furnish 
adequate  motive  to  permit  any  capital  standing  ready  to  experi- 
ment for  the  benefit  of  the  State. 

Apart  from  such  considerations,  however,  the  evidence  before 
your  committee  has  demonstrated  that  canal  freights  on  boats 
towed  by  animal  power,  as  approvingly  cited  by  Mr.  John  B. 
Jervis,  from  the  report  of  the  State  Engineer  (1877),  John  D. 
Van  Buren,  cost  per  ton  per  mile,  from  Buffalo  to  New  York, 
3.83  mills,  and,  on  a  similar  basis,  allowing,  instead  of  seven 
trips  to  a  boat  a  season,  eleven  and  three-quarter  trips,  and 
towage  at  the  rates  mentioned  in  this  bill,  the  actual  cost  per 
ton  per  mile  between  Buffalo  and  New  York  by  the  system 
proposed  to  be  introduced  is      mills.    No  item  of  the  calcula- 
tions of  the  scientific  gentlemen  making  these  estimates  has 
been  impugned,  notwithstanding  the  careful  cross-examina- 
tions to  which  they  were  subjected  by  the  committee.  There 
was  some  discussion  concerning  the  length  of  time  occupied  or 
necessary  to  be  consumed  in  lockage,  as  affecting  the  number 
of  trips  during  a  season.    In  some  places  five  minutes  are 
occupied  in  locking,  and  in  others,  where  the  good  old  ways  of 
past  generations  prevail,  fifteen  or  more  minutes  are  occupied. 
As  a  matter  of  experience,  under  the  present  system,  boatmen 
differ.    As  a  matter  of  possibility,  with  an  interested  party 
speeding  each  boat  in  and  out,  with  locks  in  fair  and  proper 
order  and  properly  worked,  all  the  engineers  agree  that  five  to 
six  minutes  is  amply  adequate.    It  is  so  reported,  as  the  result 
of  several  timings  during  experiments  made  with  steam  on  the 
canals,  in  the  report  of  Mr.  I).  M.  Greene,  engineer  to  the  com- 
mission appointed  to  investigate  the  application  of  steam  on 
canal  boats. 


82 


Taking  the  lockage  at  five  minutes,  and  the  average  speed  of 
a  boat  while  in  the  canal  at  three  and  three-quarter  miles  per 
hour,  the  estimates  clearly  show  that  the  boat  may  make  over 
eleven  trips  per  season,  as  against  the  seven  trips  a  season  now 
made.  The  present  cost  of  six  cents  a  bushel  from  Buffalo  to 
New  York,  it  is  shown,  may  be  reduced  to  four  cents. 

The  grand  result  is  obvious,  that  upon  any  calculation  made 
the  saving  in  actual  cost  of  freight  exceeds  thirty  per  cent. 

There  lias  been  some  difference  in  opinion  as  to  the  actual 
cost  of  towage  per  boat  per  mile.  The  safest  figures  deducible 
from  the  official  estimates,  and  from  the  evidence  before  the 
committee,  is,  tliat  towage  by  animal  power,  as  at  present, 
costs  from  seventeen  to  twenty-three  cents  per  boat  per  mile. 
One  man,  who  wrorked  his  own  boat,  and  estimated  other  things, 
thought  he  did  it,  one  recent  season,  for  thirteen  cents.  Some 
had  paid  as  high  as  forty-five  cents.  The  fair  cost  is  'not 
less  than  eighteen.  This  bill  compels  the  company  to  contract 
to  tow  every  boat  at  ten  cents  per  boat  per  mile,  taking  it 
whenever  ready  and  wherever  situated. 

Mr.  Jervis,  than  whom  no  higher  authority  can  be  quoted  on 
this  subject,  has  shown,  by  a  paper  published  in  May,  1878,  in 
the  International  Review,  that  in  the  use  of  steam  by  locomo- 
tive engines  in  towing  canal  boats,  the  cost  of  a  round  trip  be- 
tween Buffalo  and  Troy  is  reduced  from  the  present  $423 to 
$28317060>  or  a  reduction  of  thirty-four per  cent.,  or  one-third  of 
the  cost  by  horses.  These,  he  says,  are  fair  and  low  estimates. 
The  saving  is  one-third  of  the  cost  by  steam.  There  is  no 
speculation  in  this  ;  but  it  is  "all  based  on  well-known  princi- 
ples, and  may  be  carried  into  operation,  as  the  well-established 
practice  of  engineering." 

No  experiments  are  required  to  demonstrate  what  will  be  the 
actual  cost.  The  bill  fixes  that.  In  fact,  it  will  be,  of  course, 
less  than  the  rates  fixed  by  the  bill,  otherwise  there  would  be 
no  profit,  no  sinking  fund,  no  locomotive  towTing,  no  bill.  But 
the  rates  namedjjare  far  below  the  existing  rates.  Nor  are  ex- 
periments required  to  determine  whether  the  scheme  of  this 
company  is  or  is  not  practicable,  so  far  as  the  passage  of  this 
bill  is  concerned.  If  it  be  not  practicable,  money  will  not  be 
spent  by  capitalists  in  a  fruitless  effort.  If  boats  cannot 
profitably  be  towed  by  locomotives,  as  all  engineers  agree  they 
may  be,  nobody  will  be  injured  by  the  experiment.   If  the  con- 


83 


trary  be  true,  the  disappearance  of  the  mule  from  the  tow-path, 
because  too  expensive,  will  only  be  a  question  of  time.  Steam 
is  perfectly  adapted  to  the  canals,  and  the  canals  are  adapted 
to  steam  in  some  form.  It  does  not  comport  with  the  average 
intelligence  of  the  age  to  load  a  boat  by  steam  power  at 
Buffalo,  and  then  tow  it  350  miles  by  horse  power. 

Every  boatman  admits  one  boat  may  be  towed  by  locomotive; 
some  say  two  or  three  boats  may  be  thus  towed  at  some  rate  of 
speed  ;  some  say  five  boats  they  think  cannot  be  towed  at  a 
reasonable  rate  of  speed.  The  testimony  of  engineers,  how- 
ever, is  uniform.  Five  boats  may  be  towed  in  a  train,  and  at  a 
rate  from  three  to  five  miles  per  hour  in  the  canal  as  it  at  pres- 
ent exists  ;  that  is,  with  boats  of  240  tons  and  an  average  depth 
of  seven  feet  of  water. 

In  all  these  serious  matters  of  fact  there  is  substantial  con- 
cord between  the  experts  who  have  testified  before  you, 
and  in  published  writings  on  the  subject.  I  refer  to  the 
evidence  of  Mr.  Alexander  Barclay,  Mr.  Sylvanus  H.  Sweet, 
Mr.  D.  E.  Culver,  Mr.  H.  S.  Welles,  Mr.  John  B.  Jervis, 
and  to  the  extracts  read  from  public  documents.  The 
recommendation  of  the  present  State  Engineer  to  give  one  foot 
additional  draft  to  the  canals  will,  if  adopted,  permit  additional 
speed,  and  encourage  the  towing  of  boats  in  trains  ;  while  the 
measures  contemplated  in  improving  the  operations  of  locks 
will  add  to  the  economy  of  locomotive  towage. 

It  need  scarcely  be  added  that  the  constant  watching  and 
work  upon  the  tracks  by  a  company  interested  in  keeping  the 
canal  banks  in  sound  condition  will  materially  lessen  the  ex- 
penses for  ordinary  repairs  of  the  canals. 

As  far  as  the  canals  are  concerned,  there  is  no  questionthat 
the  proposed  system  of  towage  will  tend  towards  their  imme- 
diate and  ultimate  benefit.  But  there  is  no  fund  to  enable  the 
proper  officers  to  introduce  it.  There  is  no  appropriation,  nor 
can  one  be  passed. 

There  is  not  any  doubt  of  the  power  of  the  appropriate  offi- 
cers of  this  State  to  try  this  experiment.  If  the  proper  officers 
charged  with  the  management  of  the  canals,  their  improvement 
and  the  regulations  for  their  navigation,  would  assume  the 
grave  responsibilities  of  making  a  contract  with  an  appropriate 
party  for  locomotive  towage,  reserving  non-interference  with 
the  use  and  navigation  of  the  canals  as  now  established  by  law, 


84 


that  contract  might  be  made  to-day.  There  is  nothing  to  pre- 
vent it  either  in  the  Constitution  or  statutes  of  this  State.  But 
it  is  too  grave  a  subject  for  officers  to  touch  without  the  sanc- 
tion of  the  Legislature.  All  that  this  bill  does  is  to  authorize 
and  direct  the  proper  officers  to  make  a  contract  with  the  Buf- 
falo, Syracuse  and  Albany  Railroad  Company  upon  the  terms 
stated. 

The  State  exacts  from  the  company  the  obligation  not  only 
to  tow  all  boats  at  the  rates  mentioned,  but  to  carry  over  the 
State's  property,  the  State's  railroad  tracks,  on  the  canal  banks 
— the  State's  land— at  all  seasons  of  the  year,  whether  the 
canals  be  open  or  closed,  freight  and  passengers  at  the  lowest 
rates  mentioned. 

This  is  the  security  to  the  State,  without  which  but  little  ad- 
vance would  be  made  towards  the  great  object  to  be  attained. 
Without  the  business  arising  from  carrying  out  this  agreement 
the  railroad  company  woufd  scarcely  agree  to  build  on  the  pro- 
perty of  the  State,  and  to  permit  the  State  to  buy  the  whole 
property  of  the  railroad  from  its  own  profits.  It  is  this  subsid- 
iary traffic,  too,  at  all  seasons,  when  the  State  shall  own  the  en- 
tire road,  that  will  furnish  the  revenues  for  maintaining  the 
canals,  and  for  affording  transportation  at  its  actual  prime  cost. 
It  is  therefore  an  essential  feature  of  the  bill. 

I  ask  you  to  examine  this  amended  bill  carefully  and  see  if  I 
have  not  fairly  stated  its  provisions  and  probable  operation. 
If  there  be  anything  unconstitutional  in  a  measure  of  this  char- 
acter, it  remains  for  some  ingenious  counsel  to  point  it  out. 
Neither  this  measure  nor  this  bill  is  the  growth  of  an  hour,  or  a 
day,  or  a  month,  or  a  year.  It  is  a  carefully  prepared  and  di- 
gested plan,  adequate  to  any  ordeal  of  logic,  practical  mechan- 
ics, or  law,  presented  in  good  faith  and  urged  on  its  public 
merits. 

Of  course  you  must  surround  legislation  of  this  character 
with  appropriate  guards  to  protect  the  interests  of  the  State. 
How  will  you  do  it  \  The  Constitution  itself  has  fixed  these 
guards.  Besides,  this  bill  provides  that  this  entire  contract 
shall  be  subject  to  the  existing  reservations  of  the  State,  as 
expressed  in  the  Constitution.  These  it  is  not  in  the  power  of 
the  Legislature  to  infringe  upon.  It  is  within  the  power  of  the 
Legislature,  however,  to  control  the  use,  navigation  and  im- 
provement of  the  canals  by  appropriate  instructions  to  the 


85 


Superintendent  of  Public  Works  ;  and  to  dictate  as  well  as 
to  approve  or  to  disapprove  of  the  rules  and  regulations  for  the 
use  of  the  canals  and  their  banks.  Whatever  shallow  pretext 
has  been  made  respecting  inadequate  power  in  these  respects, 
nnder  the  Constitution,  is  entirely  removed  by  the  amendment 
adopted  by  the  people  in  1876,  and  under  which  the  Superin- 
tendent of  Public  Works  exercises  his  office.  The  bill  itself 
further  provides  that  the  new  system  shall  not  interfere  with 
the  free  and  unrestricted  use  of  the  canals,  as  now  provided  by 
law. 

It  has  been  suggested,  in  the  course  of  this  investigation, 
that  towage  by  animal  power  would  be  impracticable  after  the 
introduction  of  this  system.  This  is  like  the  suggestion  that 
horse  vehicles  could  not  safely  traverse  the  streets  of  New  York 
where  steam  elevated  railroads  have  been  introduced.  The 
railroads  were,  of  course,  prohibited  from  interfering  with 
street  travel,  and  the  imaginary  problem  long  since  solved 
itself.  If  steam  locomotive  towage  be  cheaper  than  towage  by 
animal  power,  it  will  soon  become  its  substitute.  Suggestions 
of  this  nature  come  from  the  same  personal  and  inconsiderate 
inspiration  as  the  views  of  the  boatman  who  told  the  committee 
that  if  this  bill  was  going  to  pass  he  wanted  them  to  give  him 
time  to  sell  his  new  spans  of  mules  before  the  locomotive  should 
depress  the  mnle  market.  There  never  was  a  period  in  history 
when  the  mule  question  did  not  solve  itself  without  human  en- 
deavor. So  in  this  case.  The  mule  will  not  only  work  out  his 
own  salvation,  but  bring  profit  to  the  owner,  who  shall  be  re- 
lieved from  feeding  him. 

The  idea  that  a  large  class  of  people  who  traffic  with  the  nav- 
igators and  operatives  of  the  canal  will  be  deprived  of  their 
business  is  erroneous.  Even  if  true,  would  that  afford  any 
reason  for  withholding  great  public  improvements  \  But  busi- 
ness makes  more  business.  The  moment  work  begins  under 
this  bill,  the  canal  will  be  alive  with  multiplied  laborers,  and 
with  a  business  activity  never  before  seen  along  its  banks. 
WThen  the  work  shall  be  finished,  the  farmer  along  the  canal, 
who  now  sells  his  produce  there  for  man  or  beast,  will  be  able 
to  pay  freight  to  a  distant  market,  and  receive  a  larger  return 
than  he  now  obtains.  This  result  will  inevitably  flow  from  the 
cheap  transportation  insured  by  the  successful  introduction  of 
the  proposed  system. 


86 

Permit  me, to  allude  again  to  this  topic  of  cheap  freights,  as 
bearing  upon  the  action  of  your  committee.  The  company 
should  agree  to  transport  freight  and  passengers  at  such  reason- 
able rates  as  to  command  the  confidence  of  the  Legislature  and 
the  people.  The  only  objection  heard  against  the  rates  named 
in  the  bill  is  that  they  are  so  cheap  as  not  to  be  remunerative. 
Has  not  the  evidence  before  you  demonstrated  otherwise  ?  In 
any  event,  however,  this  consideration  is  not  of  the  slightest 
consequence  to  the  State.  Pass  this  bill,  and  acquire  the  im- 
provements ;  then,  if  it  does  not  pay,  others,  not  the  State,  will 
lose  their  money. 

We  have  heard  it  also  carelessly  said  here  that  the  project 
is  impracticable,  and,  therefore,  should  not  be  attempted.  Is 
that  logic  ?  The  w^orld  is  still,  and,  therefore,  you  shall  not 
prove  that  it  moves  ?  Would  it  be  wise  for  the  Legislature,  in 
respect  to  experiments  involving  our  commerce,  our  industry, 
our  appropriations  for  public  works,  to  be  guided  by  the  opin- 
ion of  a  few  operatives,  who  think  a  scheme  impracticable 
w^hich  they  have  never  seen  tried,  and  on  such  testimony  con- 
clude against  any  experiment  ?  This  spirit  never  would  have 
started  the  telegraph  between  Baltimore  and  Washington,  or 
built  the  Croton  Aqueduct,  the  Niagara,  Albany  or  East  River 
bridges,  or  the  Pacific  Railroad. 

Great  public  enterprises  are  entitled,  if  not  to  legislative  aid, 
certainly  to  legislative  sanction.  The  genius  of  our  institutions 
is  such  that,  without  such  endorsement,  the  public  confidence 
essential  to  success  is  not  secured. 

It  was  useless  to  accumulate  evidence  respecting  the  prac- 
ticability of  this  project.  The  money  never  could  be  raised  to 
carry  out  this  bill  if  its  plans  were  not  practical.  If  the  money 
were  raised,  the  scheme  would  never  be  completed  if  it  wTere 
not  practicable  ;  and,  whether  practicable  or  impracticable,  is 
of  slight  concern  as  affecting  the  merits  of  the  measure  which 
this  committee  are  to  report  upon. 

Are  we  right  in  these  considerations,  gentlemen  ?  If  we  are, 
you  must  seek  some  other  reason  than  any  suggested  before 
the  committee  why  this  bill  should  not  become  a  law  ;  and  the 
great  problem  of  cheap  transportation  solved,  and  an  automatic 
regulator  established  by  the  Empire  State  over  those  ramified 
combinations  of  corporate  power  which  have  grasptd  the  public 
throat  as  well  as  the  public  pocket,  and  laid  a  heavy  hand  upon 


87 


republican  institutions.  Your  constituencies  may  justly  de- 
mand that  'a  measure  which  promises  such  important  public 
achievements  shall  be  favorably  received  by  the  Legislature. 

The  increased  business  that  will  be  secured  from  the  great 
West  will  not  only  aid  the  canals  and  their  subsidiary  railway, 
but  benefit  all  the  railroads  in  the  State.  Our  three  great  lines 
will  continue  to  be  rivals ;  and  yet  the  business  of  each,  of 
necessity,  will  help  the  other.  But  they  will  be  unable  to  com" 
bine. 

When  this  new  line  shall  get  fairly  in  operation,  the  State 
will  find  itself  in  possession  of  a  line  of  canal  and  railroad, 
earning,  in  a  short  time,  a  net  income  for  the  benefit  of  the 
State,  estimated  at  five  millions  of  dollars,  which  may  be  de- 
voted not  only  to  the  maintenance  of  the  canals  and  their  im- 
provement, but  towards  the  expenses  of  the  State  government. 
New  York  would  then  own  a  self-sustaining  highway,  by  land 
and  by  water.  As  was  aptly  said  by  Mr.  Edward  Crane  before 
this  committee  :  "Railways  are  nothing  but  improved  high- 
ways ;  they  are  public  ways,  not  private  ways ;  and,  like  all 
public  ways,  should  become  free  ways." 

It  may  not  be  a  sagacious  policy  for  the  State  to  tax  its  peo- 
ple at  present  for  new  railroad  enterprises  on  its  own  account  ; 
but  the  wisdom  of  accepting  a  railroad  to  be  built  on  its  own 
lands  in  aid  of  its  canals,  without  a  dollar's  tax  or  a  dollar's 
expenditure  of  public  funds,  is  too  clear  to  admit  of  question. 

The  effect  of  this  work  would  be  to  inspire  confidence  in  the 
supremacy  of  our  commercial  metropolis,  and  this  without 
large  municipal  subscriptions  to  the  capital  stock  of  tributary 
railroads,  such  as  those  made  by  Philadelphia  and  Baltimore  to 
the  great  lines  which  now  favor  those  cities  as  against  New 
York  city.  This  measure  accomplished,  New  York  city  must 
stand  in  a  position  where  in  competition  with  those  cities  she 
would  herself  dictate  instead  of  being  dictated  to  respecting 
domestic  and  foreign  shipments.  It  was  said  in  the  testimony 
here  that  cities  compete  and  railroads  combine.  How  better 
may  New  York  city  compete  with  these  seaports  to  the  south 
of  us  lor  our  fair  share  of  the  commerce  of  the  country  ? 

It  is  idle  to  speculate  upon  the  possible  benefits  accruing 
from  such  partial  and  temporary  contrivances  as  the  towing  of 
canal  boats  by  a  tug,  or  their  propulsion  by  a  steam,  engine  on 


88 


each  boat,  or  the  deepening  of  the  canal  in  aid  of  snch  a  sys- 
tem. Any  such  application  of  power  carries  with  it  a  loss  of 
twenty  per  cent,  tonnage,  and  extra  lockage  for  tugs. 

Propositions  of  this  character  do  not  meet  the  issue,  even  if 
they  were  capable  of  affording  temporary  relief.  So  also  do 
all  other  schemes  for  towage  by  cable  or  otherwise  fall  short  of 
the  necessities  of  the  occasion. 

When  this  great  work,  as  laid  out  in  this  bill,  shall  have  been 
completed,  and  transportation  by  land  and  water  guaranteed 
at  or  below  the  rates  named,  it  will  be  unnecessary  to  speculate 
what  commerce  will  come  to  or  through  New  York.  It  will  be 
unnecessary  to  inquire  whether  the  enlargement  of  the  Welland 
canal,  as  now  contemplated,  will  divert  commerce  from  New 
York,  or  from  its  Lake  ports. 

Commerce  will  go  where  its  interest  leads  it,  and  if  grain  can 
be  transported  more  cheaply  from  the  lakes  to  Albany  than  to 
Montreal,  or  to  Philadelphia,  or  to  Baltimore,  New  York  will 
do  the  business.    The  logic  is  irresistible. 

Now,  gentlemen,  if  the  bill  before  you  affords  reasonable 
hope  that  the  great  purposes  I  have  alluded  to  may  be  accom- 
plished— and  all  those  who  have  given  the  subject  any  careful 
consideration  unite  in  the  opinion  that  no  measure  has  ever  yet 
been  devised  better  calculated  to  achieve  them — can  you  sug- 
gest any  fair  grounds  why  this  bill  should  not  become  a  law, 
and  this  great  experiment  made,  or  the  result  attained  ? 

In  a  financial,  mechanical,  scientific,  or  legal  point  of  view, 
the  measure  is  unassailable.  It  addresses  itself  to  the  political 
economist,  to  the  scientific  engineer,  to  the  practical  operative, 
to  the  lawyer,  and  to  the  home  interests  of  a  large  part  of  our 
population.  It  addresses  itself  to  the  statesmen  and  politicians 
of  our  State.  It  addresses  itself  particularly  to  the  interests 
of  New  York  city,  as  well  as  to  the  interests  of  Buffalo  and 
Oswego. 

There  is  no  view  in  which  the  measure  now  before  the  com- 
mittee can  be  candidly  examined,  and  its  merits  or  its  alleged 
disadvantages  weighed,  that  will  not,  I  believe,  result  in  a  fa- 
vorable conclusion.  If  imperfect  in  any  details,  we  stand  ready 
to  aid  you  in  perfecting  them.  But  its  grand  purposes  are  sol- 
emnly confided  to  your  legislative  judgment  ;  to  that  free, 
frank,  unfettered  judgment  which  is  the  pride  of  the  American 
Representative,  whom  power  is  impotent  to  threaten  or  to 


89 


cajole,  and  to  whom  the  humblest  citizen  may  trustfully  ap- 
peal. 

I  thank  the  committee  for  the  kind  attention  accorded  me, 
and  in  the  name  of  the  Buffalo,  Syracuse  &  Albany  Railroad 
for  the  painstaking  investigation  you  have  conducted. 


iEx  ICthrta 


SEYMOUR  DURST 


When  you  leave,  please  leave  this  book 

Because  it  has  been  said 
"Sver'thing  comes  t'  him  who  waits 

Except  a  loaned  book." 


Avery  Architectural  and  Fine  Arts  Library 
Gift  of  Seymour  B.  Durst  Old  York  Library 


I 


